[top-banana16]

I am just seeking clarity as to the law on this. I am 17 and having just passed my test I am known to attend parties when there on. I was planning on going to a party on friday night (getting drunk), sleeping in my car overnight and then driving back home the next day. Now I do not want a lecture on being over the limit the next morning as i am fully aware this is a posibility and will watch my unites closely. What i am wondering is 1) can i be done for sleeping in my car when drunk? If so, why? I have no intention to drive intoxicated. 2) What is the punishment for such an offence? and 3) If i place my keys on my car wheel for example, will this show I havo intention to drive?

I appreciate your reply's with any information regarding this.


TB16

[mikeh2000]

If you've got no intention to drive the vehicle then you should be ok, although technically you are drunk in charge. I nicked someone a few months ago for the same thing, asleep in a vehicle while drunk, and when they were interviewed they proved that they had no intention to drive the vehicle and were released without charge.
What you need to do is show at the time you have no intention to drive the vehicle; that may be done by putting the keys somewhere out of reach, ie in the house where the party is being held, and then picked up in the morning by yourselves.

If you were found guilty of an offence, then it's a ban I'm afraid.

[Søren]

If parked on a public road, you will be arrested. Even in a car park, arrest is still more likely than not, if spotted.

You will then have to satisfy CPS, then a court that you had no intention of driving, and you should be able to offer a good reason for them to believe you.

Trust me on this, I have been to many accidents involving drink drivers who had intended to sleep in their car, but decided that it would be more comfortable if they drove home to their own warm bed.

The reason you will be arrested is twofold. It's A) to gain evidence for prosecution, and B) to prevent any possibility of you driving.

DON'T DO IT! :thumbsup:

[marralass]

How does this apply to vehicles which have sleeping facilities? With trucks the sleeping bit is in the cab, with caravanettes you can still get from the sleeping section into the drivers seat. Yet I'm sure plenty of people drink then sleep in these.

[desmata]

my advice would be if you really want to do this is, as above leave keys in party. and if the police do come up to the car immediately explain why you are there, what you are doing and be open and honest.

if you say 'im just sleeping, no law against that' etc. you may find yourself nicked.

[Sect172]

 top-banana16, on Mar 4 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

Now I do not want a lecture on being over the limit the next morning as i am fully aware this is a posibility and will watch my unites closely...

I appreciate you don't want a lecture, but sorry, I can't help it.

How do you know just how quickly your own body will process the alcohol in your system?

What you're suggesting doing, given especially that you know you will be driving in the morning, is irresponsible in the extreme, and if you want to keep hold of the licence that you clearly have only just obtained I would strongly advise against carrying on in the way that you have outlined.

I have been to road accidents where people have been killed due to excess alcohol. I assume you haven't seen the devastation that causes.

I have also happily locked up and charged people who are over the limit - a fair proportion of whom are over the limit the next day, and quite often at the weekend. I would bet a fair few cops are alert to the possibility of people driving over the limit next day.

To even consider doing what you're suggesting... it's selfish and insane, and if you drive the next morning and get caught, as has been intimated here, you're looking at a ban and a substantial fine.

Here's a novel concept. Get a taxi or don't drink. Do let us know how you get on.

[Søren]

 marralass, on Mar 5 2008, 08:58 AM, said:

How does this apply to vehicles which have sleeping facilities? With trucks the sleeping bit is in the cab, with caravanettes you can still get from the sleeping section into the drivers seat. Yet I'm sure plenty of people drink then sleep in these.

The law is no different for motorhomes or HGV drivers in cabs. They may well be able to provide a reasonable defence if they were parked up and settled for the night in a recognised parking bay on a motorway services or whatever, or in the case of an HGV driver if he had his schedule of the following days work which might show his expected departure time. Officer discretion would have to come into play regarding arrest in these circumstances.


The offence is as stated below
Sec 5(1) RTA 1988
If a person -
(a)...
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence .

PNLD describes 'In Charge' in this way:-
"There is no hard and fast rule or strict test for what constitutes 'in charge' for the purposes of being in charge of a vehicle whilst under the influence of drink or drugs under section 4 and being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the prescribed limit under section 5 of the 1988 Act. However, a close connection between the defendant and control of the vehicle is required. That connection may be evidenced by the defendants position in relation to the car, his actions, possession of a key which fits the ignition, his intentions as regards control of the vehicle and the position of anyone else in, at or near the vehicle."

Sec 5(2) offers a statutory defence for 'In Charge'

5(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit .

This defence was softened in favour of the defendant in light of the Human Rights Act 1998, where it was deemed that this statutory defence was too hard to achieve. The court in the Case Law of Sheldrake v DPP in 2003 gave the folowing meaning to the statutory defence.

"It is a defence for a person charged with this offence to demonstrate from the evidence an arguable case that at the time he was alleged to have committed the offence, the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle while the proportion of alcohol in his breath blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit."

The court later clarified

"It is not sufficient for the accused to show that, at the time of his arrest, he was so hopelessly drunk as to be incapable of driving a motor vehicle; he must show, for example, that he had handed the keys of the vehicle to someone else or that, realising that he was adversely affected by drink, he had taken a room for the night."

In reality CPS will be very unlikely to run a Drunk in Charge unless there was reasonable likelihood that the defendant would drive while still over the limit.

The fact that the likelihood of prosecution may be fairly slim will not prevent an officer making a lawful and appropriate arrest for the purposes of prevention as well as evidence gathering.

[Ian_C]

 Sect172, on Mar 5 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

I appreciate you don't want a lecture, but sorry, I can't help it.

How do you know just how quickly your own body will process the alcohol in your system?

What you're suggesting doing, given especially that you know you will be driving in the morning, is irresponsible in the extreme, and if you want to keep hold of the licence that you clearly have only just obtained I would strongly advise against carrying on in the way that you have outlined.

I have been to road accidents where people have been killed due to excess alcohol. I assume you haven't seen the devastation that causes.

I have also happily locked up and charged people who are over the limit - a fair proportion of whom are over the limit the next day, and quite often at the weekend. I would bet a fair few cops are alert to the possibility of people driving over the limit next day.

To even consider doing what you're suggesting... it's selfish and insane, and if you drive the next morning and get caught, as has been intimated here, you're looking at a ban and a substantial fine.

Here's a novel concept. Get a taxi or don't drink. Do let us know how you get on.

I agree 100%,,, you really have NO IDEA how this alcohol will affect you, or your driving,,, you are only 17 and not experienced enough. Please,,, PLEASE,,, get a taxi,, or crash at a mates.. :mellow:

[PintOfKittens]

Dont drink, Taxi, crash at friends place or hotel room.

I recently got my license, and im scared witless everytime I go out driving, because im incharge of 1500kg of steel that can do over 70mph. Thats a heck of alot of force, if I hit someone at that speed, there isnt gunna be much left of them. Its exactly like me walking down the road, with a loaded gun, and my finger on the trigger.

[Ian_C]

nice to see you recognise the risks, you are already REALLY learning how to drive.. Congrats.. :iagree:

[SharpShooter]

 PintOfKittens, on Mar 5 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

Dont drink, Taxi, crash at friends place or hotel room.

I recently got my license, and im scared witless everytime I go out driving, because im incharge of 1500kg of steel that can do over 70mph. Thats a heck of alot of force, if I hit someone at that speed, there isnt gunna be much left of them. Its exactly like me walking down the road, with a loaded gun, and my finger on the trigger.

Now hang on am minute.. firearms really cannot be compared to motor vehicles :whistle2:
But yes you are right the weight of the car combined with its velocity will certainly cause serious damage upon impact with a pedestrian :mellow:


The difference with walking about with a loaded gun in a public place, is you dont have to be drunk to get yourself arrested and jailed. (or worse!). The second difference is that hitting a pedestrian or other vehicle whilst traveling 70mph will likely injure (possibly fatally) yourself as well as the pedestrian or driver of the second vehicle.

Lastly, your signature is hardly approperiate for a public police forum. The police take enough slack about the use of firearms already. The police train for many hours to make quick judgments when firearms should be used (fired or deployed) and are not done so in personal anger of the officers involved, they are used to prevent the offender from casuing injury to the public or in some cases himself.

It is an offence to be in charge of a firearm whilst under the infleunce of alcohol. I dont see why it should not also be an offence to handle a firearm whislt 'angry' where your perceptions of the situation may be impaired.



As for driving, good luck, and im glad you have realised the reponsibility you take whislt taking control of a vehicle. Unfortunatly some dont, and accidents occur. Good luck with it, im a new(ish) driver myself. So useful compared to motorcycles I used to use. :whistle2: But I was struck off my bike by an elderly man, and left with a dislocated shoulder, trashed bike, and fractured foot. Definetly prefer cars for their security and conveniance to carry other passengers and luggage etc. :thumbsup:

This post has been edited by SharpShooter: 08 March 2008 - 09:05 PM

[Dean0]

 top-banana16, on Mar 4 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

I am just seeking clarity as to the law on this. I am 17 and having just passed my test I am known to attend parties when there on. I was planning on going to a party on friday night (getting drunk), sleeping in my car overnight and then driving back home the next day. Now I do not want a lecture on being over the limit the next morning as i am fully aware this is a posibility and will watch my unites closely. What i am wondering is 1) can i be done for sleeping in my car when drunk? If so, why? I have no intention to drive intoxicated. 2) What is the punishment for such an offence? and 3) If i place my keys on my car wheel for example, will this show I havo intention to drive?

I appreciate your reply's with any information regarding this.


TB16

Do you value you license? If so, they I suggest you don't drive in the morning, right away. Some people also have the beleif they can drive on one pint (E.g 2.3U Fosters, 3U Stella) because the law allows so many units of alcohol. What they don't anticipate is that the 'allowance' (is it 2 units?) depends on size, sex, weight, amount of excercise taken etc.

You've just got that license and is a great accomplishment, don't ruin it by just going to a party and driving the next day, have someone pick you up. After-all, how would you cope if you hit a child at the bottom of your road whilst drinking 5-7 hours ago.

This post has been edited by Dean0: 09 March 2008 - 02:29 PM