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CID: What DO they do?


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#1 OldMemberNewName

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 11:44 AM

In our force and more specifically in my area we have CID, Robbery Team, Burglary Team and FCIU (which does domestic violence and child protection stuff).

Now i'm sure these guys/gals are busy but they seem to think that uniform are their assistants. They determine a scene without thinking how it will be staffed and won't authorise CSI to come out at night which ends up removing a patrol from answering calls for the night shift and usually removes a morning patrol as well.

The robbery team who are supposed to be the experts either don't come out to the robbery or do and then expect uniform to take their statements for them and then complain that the statement isn't up to their standard. The same happens with the burglary team and FCIU.

A patrol was tied up the other day with doing a VIPER for a CID prisoner cos CID were apparantly incapable of doing this themselves. CID requested a few days later that uniform make an arrest for them, did i miss something or are CID not police officers anymore? Then, when requested to turn out from their office on nights, the answer to the uniform inspector was that they were too important to leave the office. I would hope that the DC's head would roll for that comment but it won't, but if it was uniform who made a similar comment then the situation would be different! We were short the other night and there was a Superintendant who stated that CID had to leave their office to deal with a major incident which ordinarily would have been dealt with by uniform, but due to staffing levels they had to deal. They stomped and whinged for an unbelieveable amount of time and eventually did what they were told!

My Sgt had a meeting the other day with the area commander who said that these departments shouldn't be expecting us to do their work for them. That they should be taking their own statments, making their own arrests, carrying out their own searches etc etc. This won't happeen though cos for some reason uniform Sgt's and Inspectors tend to take orders from a CID rank below. So if a DC says No to a uniform Sgt, the Sgt backs down.

Just want to see if its the same elsewhere.

#2 Traffic Rat

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 11:56 AM

Biggest problem I used to find was CID - usually saying - That Sec 18 assault is at best a 20 but CPS will probably only charge a 47 so back to you to deal.

However Equally I know that at my last nick the Proactive arm of the unit were exactly that - Proactive. Picked up virtually all the Burglaries that came in whilst they were on duty, unless we had got hit badly by a team and done several addresses, then they would do what they could but would ask if Uniform could attend initially and do the basics and they would follow up later that day or the next day. Even if they were going from job to job the would still have time to stop / search and they actually realised that if we couldn't get the sc*&%ts for Crime, we could keep chipping away at they for traffic stuff and get them disqual and then sent down for Disqual driving etc

I don't mind doing a lockup request for them, its another figure for me and little paperwork, and in reality it means either they can sort something else, or Johny Burglar is in the bin for them at 8am when they come in the office.

As one Sgt pointed out to a DC once many years ago - Your rank is Detective CONSTABLE, Mine is SERGEANT, now sort it yourself!

#3 Gismo

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:24 PM

How many years of service does it normally take to get into CID? after probabtion of course.

#4 jonnokennedy

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:39 PM

How many years of service does it normally take to get into CID? after probabtion of course.


Whenever your bored of being a Police Officer you can apply for CID.

I work in a large city and it has to be a very big job for them to get invloved.

I am currently investigating a £30k Criminal Damage, the times where CID would even contemplate investigating that are long gone

#5 Kopite

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 02:28 PM

It all comes down to figures and PI's again.

Now they have targets, they only want to deal with jobs where they are guaranteed a tick at the end of it. They're more than happy to take jobs off you if they can see the little tick at the end, but if its a job requiring some depth of investigation - then most are reluctant. I don't blame them, i blame the system. I have mentioned in the past - I do question the quality and experience of people moving into the Jacks these days [on the whole] as the experience of deep and complex investigations is limited because whilst on response people are in that rut of focusing on "easy ticks" and so have learnt to get jobs off their screen as quickly as possible as opposed to putting in a bit of effort and possibly getting results.

I also find the Jacks [well the ones in my nick] don't really have their fingers on the pulse of the community. They don't have info or intel and they are miles behind on whats going on round and about. Gone are the days where you could drop into CID and they'd know all the bucks in the area and if there was something/someone they didnt know - they could find out from their contacts.

Its sad, because CID should be such a brilliant job and a great part of the policing system. Its just lost its way in recent years. Like most of the job though i guess?

#6 Battenburg Bob

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 02:37 PM

Whenever your bored of being a Police Officer you can apply for CID.

I work in a large city and it has to be a very big job for them to get invloved.

I am currently investigating a £30k Criminal Damage, the times where CID would even contemplate investigating that are long gone


In my Force, uniform deal with just about everything. I rang up to pass on a rape. (12 year old having it away with the lodger..with consent)

He initially refused to take it. The actual comment was 'there's rape...and there's proper rape'. Got the usual, get response to start the ball rolling and come to us if you need help. They were left in doubt that the paperwork was heading their way.

Want an anniversary check doing..we'll just get uniform to stop what they're doing and sort it. Really winds everyone up. We've got people just out of their probation doing 'Trainee Inv' programme. Because they now come to work in a Matalan suit, they think their Insp Morse and suddenly show utter contempt for uniform. It's not something I take kindly too and is one of the few occasions I've had to 'explain' the rank structure.

#7 Gismo

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 03:03 PM

In my Force, uniform deal with just about everything. I rang up to pass on a rape. (12 year old having it away with the lodger..with consent)

He initially refused to take it. The actual comment was 'there's rape...and there's proper rape'. Got the usual, get response to start the ball rolling and come to us if you need help. They were left in doubt that the paperwork was heading their way.

Want an anniversary check doing..we'll just get uniform to stop what they're doing and sort it. Really winds everyone up. We've got people just out of their probation doing 'Trainee Inv' programme. Because they now come to work in a Matalan suit, they think their Insp Morse and suddenly show utter contempt for uniform. It's not something I take kindly too and is one of the few occasions I've had to 'explain' the rank structure.


But I thought the Force was one big team who co-operate with each other to get things done and get crims locked away. I am sadly disappointed this is not the case. And why do CID have a chip on their shoulder? Have they forgotten that they were once Regs?

I hate people like that. Once they get to a certain level they think they can ***** on the ones below them or in different depts.

Whenever your bored of being a Police Officer you can apply for CID.

I work in a large city and it has to be a very big job for them to get invloved.

I am currently investigating a £30k Criminal Damage, the times where CID would even contemplate investigating that are long gone


Which city do you work in? Can you apply for a secondment into CID while on probabtion?

#8 trixiefoo

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 07:51 PM

Gismo - Sadly this is as far away from the truth as is possible.

Short synopsis of the job - uniformed officers on response are deemed lowest of the low, area/SNO/whatever you call them are slightly higher, the multitude of squads are above them and the CID sit on the top of this pile.

I've been shot down on here for airing my views on CID before, so I will tread carefully.

That said, the posters above are right - a lot of CID believe they are equivalent or above the rank of Sgt. To be honest, they piss me off. I could go on all day about them but for the reasons above, I wont.

In short, the state of the CID in my force - and I'll bet the country - is a disgrace. It had used to be seen as form of promotion. Now, there are trainee tecs in my force that have NEVER driven a reponse car, are just out of their probation and have never been or dealt with a major crime scene.

I take great pleasure now in exercising authority in rank - gone are the days of some idiot tec asking my staff to "come and see them". They have cars, they can come to us.

Good, experienced, "old sweat" techs are worth their weight on gold. They deserve to be given a bit more leverage/tolerance. The rest are a bloody joke. Whether it's me just getting older or what, but I honestly wouldn't trust most of them to manage a piss up in a brewery, never mind a shooting or murder scene.

Deep breath.......rant over. for now.

#9 Carlito

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 08:28 PM

I love the Matalan suit comment, that is so true !! I've noticed that a massive tie circa David Beckham from 1999 also needs to be worn avec the suit !

#10 Futures

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 08:46 PM

Just a question:

If a DC says to a Uniform Sergeant that he's not doing anything, does that Sergeant have the authority to then tell that DC he HAS to do something... or does the uniform Sergeant need to go to the DS and get him to do it?

Same with DI and Uniform Inspector?

#11 WellAdvised

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 10:02 PM

What do they do?

One major offence really causes problems - Murders

My office will have at least 10 MIR (Major Incident Room) enquiries on the go at once. This means that each of those enquiries will have an SIO, possibly a deputy SIO, an exhibits officer, an FLO, A comms officer. Once the scene gets released, and the somebody in uniform goes to the CID office and says "WHO WANTS THIS?" all heads go down. Currently dealing with 3 rapes, 3 S20 assaults, 4 S18, a fraud (I have had for 2 years), and another one I can't talk about involving a Police Officer. I don't want sympathy, but I definitely don't want that scene log. Drop everything, there has been a murder. From when that scene log arrives, all the work starts. Every action is logged, every statement read, copied and marked up for further actions. Conferences every morning with your actions for the day (go and get these 20 sets of cctv and watch them). None of the work is recorded anywhere as a PI, as it only relates to 1 crime. Take the family to identify their loved one, attend the Post Mortem, submit the forensics, meet with the CPS for a baristers conference, warn all the witnesses.....the list goes on and on. 3 weeks later, you realise those jobs you have forgot about are 3 weeks older & you are being aksed why you haven't rang the victim, then someone comes upstairs and says "WHO WANTS THIS LOG".

I understand why you all dislike CID, as I did too once. But I tell you what, I would go back to uniform in a hearbeat.

The other thing is the jobs that never reach anywhere other than the CID office. They will be so sensitive, that nobody can know. You would think that all those specialist, gucci Force Level teams would want them. They don't. Investigations into officers in other Forces, yep that's us. Crazy kidnap style scenarios that nobody knows, yep that's us. So much stuff that our uniform colleagues never even know about.

Carry on.

#12 Battenburg Bob

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:50 AM

What do they do?

One major offence really causes problems - Murders

My office will have at least 10 MIR (Major Incident Room) enquiries on the go at once. This means that each of those enquiries will have an SIO, possibly a deputy SIO, an exhibits officer, an FLO, A comms officer. Once the scene gets released, and the somebody in uniform goes to the CID office and says "WHO WANTS THIS?" all heads go down. Currently dealing with 3 rapes, 3 S20 assaults, 4 S18, a fraud (I have had for 2 years), and another one I can't talk about involving a Police Officer. I don't want sympathy, but I definitely don't want that scene log. Drop everything, there has been a murder. From when that scene log arrives, all the work starts. Every action is logged, every statement read, copied and marked up for further actions. Conferences every morning with your actions for the day (go and get these 20 sets of cctv and watch them). None of the work is recorded anywhere as a PI, as it only relates to 1 crime. Take the family to identify their loved one, attend the Post Mortem, submit the forensics, meet with the CPS for a baristers conference, warn all the witnesses.....the list goes on and on. 3 weeks later, you realise those jobs you have forgot about are 3 weeks older & you are being aksed why you haven't rang the victim, then someone comes upstairs and says "WHO WANTS THIS LOG".

I understand why you all dislike CID, as I did too once. But I tell you what, I would go back to uniform in a hearbeat.

The other thing is the jobs that never reach anywhere other than the CID office. They will be so sensitive, that nobody can know. You would think that all those specialist, gucci Force Level teams would want them. They don't. Investigations into officers in other Forces, yep that's us. Crazy kidnap style scenarios that nobody knows, yep that's us. So much stuff that our uniform colleagues never even know about.

Carry on.


Mmmmm..lets see. Somebody has a domestic and tops the wife. Major incident room, with 40-50 staff (civvie and Police) Dedicated to that enquiry.

Quadruple fatal RTC, section 1. 1 Sgt, 1PC and a part time FLO. Witnesses all over the country. And we still have to do our normal response work.

It could just be me..but it makes me spit feathers!

#13 WellAdvised

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:13 AM

Mmmmm..lets see. Somebody has a domestic and tops the wife. Major incident room, with 40-50 staff (civvie and Police) Dedicated to that enquiry.

Quadruple fatal RTC, section 1. 1 Sgt, 1PC and a part time FLO. Witnesses all over the country. And we still have to do our normal response work.

It could just be me..but it makes me spit feathers!


You are talking about Force Level Murder Teams. We have a Sgt and one section (between 1 + 5), no civilian support, FLO work on top of our normal work. I work in an area CID office, on shifts. Sound similar? Murders are put into categories, and they used to just give us the domestic ones. That is no longer the case. We get all categories.

If you want to keep up the them and us, you are welcome to it. I have no axe to grind.

At a time when the government would love us all to be at each others throats, this is just the sort of thing they want. Too many people here willing to have a go at others on the basis of their perceptions, no unity at all, and a petty backstabbing attitude on public forums that makes me sad.

#14 OldMemberNewName

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:04 AM

I don't want to start a them and us but its hard in todays climate.

Because CID see themselves as superior to uniform we're always clashing. If there's a burglary team they should be dealing with the burglary. If there's a robbery team they should be dealing with the robbery.

Welladvised, I disagree with your comments about how 'special' CID are and how they deal with secret stuff. As a response officer i have dealt with 2 kidnap jobs in the last 6 months which involved the arrest, statements, seizing exhibits etc etc, the only thing i didn't do was interview cos apparently thats CID's job! I have dealt with 3 jobs involving police officers. Murders, i've taken statements and seized clothing.

There's an officer on my section who is SOLO trained and CID have basically asked her to deal with everything (on 3 seperate rapes), yet on paper it shows CID investigating. In the last 2 weeks i've taken family to identify their loved one, submitted forensics, met with the CPS. And whilst trying to get to 999 calls i've also got 6 or 7 crimes to investigate and 2-3 RTC's. Like you, i'll be asked why I haven't rang the victim, and then another 999 call comes in and i'm off out again to arrest which will tie me up for the rest of the shift meaning i have to bounce the crimes in my pot on another day. But alas, my area has come up with a very clever idea to help us...they're giving us all solvable crimes to investigate to allow Neighbourhood the opportunity to be seen in their Neighbourhoods. So, if you live in a certain area of Liverpool don't expect to see a bobby turn up when you've been robbed cos the robbery team don't attend robberies and management are now making sure i can't get to you and its not the job of Neighbourhood to respond to the radio!!!

Welladvised, please don't think that uniform is any easier than CID. I've had 1 day off in 2 weeks, not finished on time once in those 2 weeks. Can't remember the last time i got refs and look above to see how busy we on response are as well.

#15 WellAdvised

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:30 AM

I don't want to start a them and us but its hard in todays climate.

Because CID see themselves as superior to uniform we're always clashing. If there's a burglary team they should be dealing with the burglary. If there's a robbery team they should be dealing with the robbery.

Welladvised, I disagree with your comments about how 'special' CID are and how they deal with secret stuff. As a response officer i have dealt with 2 kidnap jobs in the last 6 months which involved the arrest, statements, seizing exhibits etc etc, the only thing i didn't do was interview cos apparently thats CID's job! I have dealt with 3 jobs involving police officers. Murders, i've taken statements and seized clothing.

There's an officer on my section who is SOLO trained and CID have basically asked her to deal with everything (on 3 seperate rapes), yet on paper it shows CID investigating. In the last 2 weeks i've taken family to identify their loved one, submitted forensics, met with the CPS. And whilst trying to get to 999 calls i've also got 6 or 7 crimes to investigate and 2-3 RTC's. Like you, i'll be asked why I haven't rang the victim, and then another 999 call comes in and i'm off out again to arrest which will tie me up for the rest of the shift meaning i have to bounce the crimes in my pot on another day. But alas, my area has come up with a very clever idea to help us...they're giving us all solvable crimes to investigate to allow Neighbourhood the opportunity to be seen in their Neighbourhoods. So, if you live in a certain area of Liverpool don't expect to see a bobby turn up when you've been robbed cos the robbery team don't attend robberies and management are now making sure i can't get to you and its not the job of Neighbourhood to respond to the radio!!!

Welladvised, please don't think that uniform is any easier than CID. I've had 1 day off in 2 weeks, not finished on time once in those 2 weeks. Can't remember the last time i got refs and look above to see how busy we on response are as well.


Do you think I joined CID from the street? Been there, got the T shirt. Speak to the bosses, they decide on policies.

I have to ask, why do a SOLO course, or whatever your sexual offences liaison is called, and then whine as you have to deal with sexual offences?

I didn't say CID were 'special', I was suggesting that there are lots of jobs we have that are never reported anywhere. You will find that the management decide who does what, it is their policies that create the situation, and you decide to make it personal and direct your anger at those of the same rank, run ragged just like you. I bet you hate that other 'lazy' section as well eh? They do nothing, leave the cars in a state, steal our milk etc etc.

Your perception is that CID see themselves as superior. It is more likely that you have an inferiority complex. The world appears to be against you, it isn't just CID is it? Those pesky Neighbourhoods sound like they have it in for you too. Get a new thread going.

I don't think Uniform work is easier, I said I would go back in a heartbeat. I enjoyed Uniform, which is more than can be said for being in CID most of the time.

#16 Battenburg Bob

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:22 PM

I don't think anyone wants to see a 'them and us' scenario. But it's developing (or has developed). What else can you say when I had a shift of 5 response officer on 24/7 running their arses off, seeing all the 'specialist' departments doing not a great deal.

Neighbourhood Policing teams. I had 5 officers to deal with everything. This dept (in the office next to mine) had 13 Officers and 8 PCSOs. They do absolutely sod all. 'It's not our remit' to deal with crime. Never have a radio turned on. I ran out to an assistance shout recently. As I passed their door, they were all sat with their feet up drinking tea. Some hadn't even bothered to change into uniform. I gave the mother of all bollockings when I got back. Then promptly got moaned at by their Sgt for 'interfering' in her dept. (And they get a £1500 priority payment just to rub it in)

Pregnant women gets assaulted by husband. Punched and kicks to stomach. Then forced to drink rat poison. Went to DVU. Eight 'DCs' (I use the term advisedly, as I've got more service than the majority put together). They were discussing their lottery numbers as I explained the job. I could see the DS looking at the statements in my hand. Response. "We don't investigate". When I asked what DVU's contribution will be..."we'll send her a leaflet"

The only jobs our CID want are high profile ones, which get them a nice 'well done' certificate.

It's hard to promote a 'teamwork' philosophy, when 80% want to be part of the 'team' and the other 20% are doing all the work.

Edited by Battenburg Bob, 14 August 2008 - 12:23 PM.


#17 WellAdvised

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:48 PM

I could regurgitate numerous stories of how things went wrong due to errors by this or that person, Uniform or otherwise. Their bad attitude, and sloppy work practices. The sad thing is your are stereotyping a large swathe of officers, all of whom (at some point) have done your job.

As we all know stereotypes do exist to some extent, amd there may be some grain of truth in basis of it. That does not mean that everybody is like that, and if I were to make sweeping statements about everybody in a Uniform, the flames would be horrendous.

Why did you accept the word of the DS in the DVU? Why didn't you raise it to Inspector level if you were so convinced it was their job. There was obviously something that allowed them to say 'not us', or they would be up to their necks in it when you escalated he matter.

Most jobs being handed over to other depts have clear remits about who does what. Where I work, I would always refer a job to my supervision if I thought it was not for us. It isn't that hard to work out who deals with the investigation if the guidelines are understood by everyone. Believe it or not, it has been known for Officers to talk up a job in order to get rid to others. Not everybody does it, and you get to know who tries it on & who doesn't. I wouldn't suggest that anybody here who has been cuffed has engaged in such a practice, of course.

Arrested for attempted murder, charged with common assault, ring any bells?

#18 Battenburg Bob

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 01:03 PM

Why did you accept the word of the DS in the DVU? Why didn't you raise it to Inspector level if you were so convinced it was their job. There was obviously something that allowed them to say 'not us', or they would be up to their necks in it when you escalated he matter.


Yes..they're lazy barstewards. Unfortunately, the DI's like to continue the 'we're far too busy' scenario. It would be nice to think the DS would be 'up to his neck in it', but the elitist protectionism prevails.

Now, I am aware I sound bitter, But that's because I'm tired of seeing young,keen response Officers being treated like rubbish by command teams. Despite this they dig in and get on with it. It also saddens me that the main topic of conversation is how to get offresponse. Invariably, they see others getting paid extra to do less.

#19 OldMemberNewName

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 01:06 PM

Do you think I joined CID from the street? Been there, got the T shirt. Speak to the bosses, they decide on policies.

No, like the rest of us you did your probation in uniform. Unfortunately, many CID officers forget where they came from.

I have to ask, why do a SOLO course, or whatever your sexual offences liaison is called, and then whine as you have to deal with sexual offences?

The hint is in the title, Sexual Offences LIAISON Officer. You are not there to investigate, that is the role of CID-Criminal INVESTIGATION Department. Yet, each and every time she tries to get them to investigate they find a reason for her to do something else. Luckily, the poor attitude and capabilities of our CID has been identified and in the very near future we're getting a dedicated Sexual Offences team who will deal with the matter from beginning to end.

I didn't say CID were 'special', I was suggesting that there are lots of jobs we have that are never reported anywhere. You will find that the management decide who does what, it is their policies that create the situation, and you decide to make it personal and direct your anger at those of the same rank, run ragged just like you. I bet you hate that other 'lazy' section as well eh? They do nothing, leave the cars in a state, steal our milk etc etc.

At least you recognise that Cons in uniform or CID are the same rank, cos i'm getting sick and tired of the CID officers I come in contact with thinking i'm their secretary or simply something stuck on the underside of their shoe! I would not say the other sections are lazy but there is one that leaves the cars in a particularly scruffy state and another section who nicks our milk!

Your perception is that CID see themselves as superior. It is more likely that you have an inferiority complex. The world appears to be against you, it isn't just CID is it? Those pesky Neighbourhoods sound like they have it in for you too. Get a new thread going.

I do yes, as does my boss when he is spoken to as if he's a Con cos apparently uniform equals bottom of the pile and DC equals all knowing God! Maybe i missed something but i thought rank existed in CID as well. I don't think Neighbourhoods have it in for me and i know they don't sit there doing nothing. I've seen how many crimes they carry and i'm just glad i'm not on Neighbourhood. However, there are occasions when i'm going to a 999 call from the other end of the area and i see Neighbourhood leaving the area of the 999 call having said they're not available to respond!

I don't think Uniform work is easier, I said I would go back in a heartbeat. I enjoyed Uniform, which is more than can be said for being in CID most of the time.



#20 Kopite

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 03:02 PM

I think everyone needs to take a minute and step back here.

The bottoms line is........we are all chokka block. We are all under assisted, and under staffed. We are under pressure from PI's and in turn the bosses and we are all frustrated that wile we try and do something on the front line, there are pointless squads, teams and units formed.

Its not necesarily the people doing the job.....but the job and the people who decide how we work. Its a shambles - a total and utter shambles.

I bet every Response bobbie or Jack on here could regurgitate numerous times when they feel let down by the other, and point to examples where they are doing the others work. But at the end of the day.....everyone is weighed under in s*** on the front line of Policing.

Once you get about Inspector....or even Sergeant - the world is a different place and the gaps between supervision and the front line is undescribeable. How can they be expected to change the job or help us if they are sheilded from the truth? The further up the ladder you go, the less they know. Its because the Insp sheilds what the SGT says, the Ch Insp sheilds what the Insp says and so on and so forth.

Example. I locked up Sec4 RTA the other day...no breathy's available [there hasnt been any on response for 2 months now.....because people take them and think "ill keep hold of that cos there is none" and it makes it worse!!]. Anyway, I get a call from supervision to say "keep the lack of breathy of the 24 hour log as I dont want the Super to see it".........How can problems be fixed?

Its just so demoralising....for all of us....and guess what? Its putting more of a wedge between people who SHOULD BE A TEAM!!!!