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WHY DO SOME PEOPLE SAY ''PCSOS AREN'T POLICE OFFICERS''??


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#176 OFFLINE   Juana-R

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

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#177 OFFLINE   gerardthebutler

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

It's taken me awhile to read through this thread. I'm dismayed to say that with one or two notable exceptions, it's pretty predictable.

In my experience, by virtue of their work, police officers tend to become, and to see themselves, as separate.

Although not included as part of the armed forces they nevertheless serve the crown and regard others as something lesser.

There is a natural extension of this attitude towards what were Specials and now PCSOs.

The police service is unique and it is therefore understandable that the bonds of comradeship need to be, and are, strong.

But it is equally as important not to lose sight of what you are doing, for whom and WHY.

Is it for the money, the comradeship, the elitism, the feelgood factor, the power or something more fundamental - the feeling that you can make a real difference to society.

Maybe you had some of these feelings in the past but experience has blurred your vision of society.

Maybe others have these feelings but experience has hardened your views so much you can no longer perceive those views in others, or if you do, scoff at their idealism.



Maybe its time for another can.

#178 OFFLINE   tjp

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

No, I think it might be that police officers have to undergo rigerous selection and training, and every day put themselves in harms way to serve the public and investigate crime.
PCSOs do adifferent job, which is more focussed around Community Reassurance and ASB.

Equally, my mother is a specialist dyxlexia teacher with a BSc (Ed) and a Masters in Special Education.
My Auntie Karen is a Teaching Assistant, who works with people with Special Needs.
Quite rightly, Mum gets very angry when Karen says she does that same job.

tjp

#179 OFFLINE   boudicea

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:56 PM

It is a question of allegiance by oath, as to whom attested police constables, and non-attested PCSOs owe their duty to.
Chief Constables are appointed by Her Majesty and given a medal as far as I know, and so it is illegal for a PCC to sack one, unless we all agree that the Queen is no longer sovereign, and parliament have taken it upon themselves to own the people's sovereignty.
CC's through Her Majesty owe their allegiance to the public, just as also do PC's.
PCSO's on the other hand are not asked to swear their allegiance to anyone - correct me if I'm wrong!
The New Police and Crime Commissioners do not swear their oath to Her Majesty and through her the people, so exactly where does their allegiance lie, and more to the point Which force - Eurogendfor (EU's military police force)given that this appointment is EU directed?
The Police and Crime Commissioners' oath
"I do solemnly and sincerely promise that I will serve all the people of Force Area in the office of police and crime commissioner without fear or favour.
I will act with integrity and diligence in my role and, to the best of my ability, will execute the duties of my office to ensure that the police are able to cut crime and protect the public.
I will give a voice to the public, especially victims of crime and work with other services to ensure the safety of the community and effective criminal justice.
I will take all steps within my power to ensure transparency of my decisions, so that I may be properly held to account by the public.
I will not seek to influence or prevent any lawful and reasonable investigation or arrest, nor encourage any police action save that which is lawful and justified within the bounds of this office."

Edited by boudicea, 23 November 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#180 OFFLINE   Naomi

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

It is a question of allegiance by oath, as to whom attested police constables, and non-attested PCSOs owe their duty to.
Chief Constables are appointed by Her Majesty and given a medal as far as I know, and so it is illegal for a PCC to sack one, unless we all agree that the Queen is no longer sovereign, and parliament have taken it upon themselves to own the people's sovereignty.
CC's through Her Majesty owe their allegiance to the public, just as also do PC's.
PCSO's on the other hand are not asked to swear their allegiance to anyone - correct me if I'm wrong!
The New Police and Crime Commissioners do not swear their oath to Her Majesty and through her the people, so exactly where does their allegiance lie, and more to the point Which force - Eurogendfor (EU's military police force)given that this appointment is EU directed?
The Police and Crime Commissioners' oath
"I do solemnly and sincerely promise that I will serve all the people of Force Area in the office of police and crime commissioner without fear or favour.
I will act with integrity and diligence in my role and, to the best of my ability, will execute the duties of my office to ensure that the police are able to cut crime and protect the public.
I will give a voice to the public, especially victims of crime and work with other services to ensure the safety of the community and effective criminal justice.
I will take all steps within my power to ensure transparency of my decisions, so that I may be properly held to account by the public.
I will not seek to influence or prevent any lawful and reasonable investigation or arrest, nor encourage any police action save that which is lawful and justified within the bounds of this office."


And your point is what precisely??
I am sick of having to defend my job to people in the job - there is enough hassle out of it without getting it in the neck from your colleagues. Yes there are time waster PCSOs, but then there are bad apples in every faceat of every job on the planet. Personally, I work very hard to do the best for my community and to support my PC colleagues, sometimes I am frustrated that I cannot do more due to lack of powers but it is what it is and the job is what you make of it - you can do a lot if you want too.
And as for us being policing on the cheap - well I think they get a great deal from employing me and the majority of my colleagues. Plus, if PCSOs go, who really believes that they'll just recruit more PCs?

#181 OFFLINE   Jaydee

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

And your point is what precisely??
I am sick of having to defend my job to people in the job - there is enough hassle out of it without getting it in the neck from your colleagues. Yes there are time waster PCSOs, but then there are bad apples in every faceat of every job on the planet. Personally, I work very hard to do the best for my community and to support my PC colleagues, sometimes I am frustrated that I cannot do more due to lack of powers but it is what it is and the job is what you make of it - you can do a lot if you want too.
And as for us being policing on the cheap - well I think they get a great deal from employing me and the majority of my colleagues. Plus, if PCSOs go, who really believes that they'll just recruit more PCs?


Sorry Naomi but you are flogging a dead horse I am afraid. Nobody likes having to defend their job especially when they work so hard in it but I gave up trying to defend my job to certain people on here a while ago and you will just wind yourself up trying. I have decided to just let it go and I suggest you do the same. We both know our time is valuable and our input is as valid and purposeful as the next Police employee and that should be enough. I didn't join this job to be praised and thanked and I doubt you did either. Self satisfaction is all that matters and for as long as you have that you will be fine! :thumbsup:

#182 OFFLINE   boudicea

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:09 AM

Posted ImageNaomi, on 24 November 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

And your point is what precisely??

The precise point Naomi and Jaydee is not to criticise the work PCSOs do, but to make you aware that you can be co-opted to any force without any fuss, even a foreign one, or a private one, because you are not connected to the Queen by oath, just as the new PCC does not swear an oath to Her Majesty. PCSOs are therefore up for grabs, and could be asked to work against attested officers!
It is a subtle difference, and it has been brought about purposely.

#183 OFFLINE   ammo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

At the end of the day it ends up with the simple fact that PCSOs provide a useful role in today's police force. It helps the police remain engaged with the community and plays big part in the reassurance side of police. They are not and should not be considered as Police Officers. They do not do the same job and should be criticised for not being able to do the same thing. In the same way a DEO (Detention/Escort Officer)/ COA (Custody Officer's Assistant) is not a police officer. They have a specific role which helps the police force work. If there were no PCSO's the force would not function as well but would still carry on.

#184 OFFLINE   morek54

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:09 AM

At the end of the day it ends up with the simple fact that PCSOs provide a useful role in today's police force. It helps the police remain engaged with the community and plays big part in the reassurance side of police. They are not and should not be considered as Police Officers. They do not do the same job and should be criticised for not being able to do the same thing. In the same way a DEO (Detention/Escort Officer)/ COA (Custody Officer's Assistant) is not a police officer. They have a specific role which helps the police force work. If there were no PCSO's the force would not function as well but would still carry on.


I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure we'd really notice the difference. I well remember when we had Community Constables - and they single handedly did the community engagement bit for their area. They knew everyone and everyone knew them. They were aware of all the low-level problems within their locality and were often quite effective at dealing with those problems. Now we have an entire workforce of non-warranted Officers to fulfill that role. I'm afraid PCSOs are but a product of the excesses of a New Labour government, whose public spending knew no bounds. Those who don't draw a correlation between the size of cuts to the Police budgets and the money wasted on extending the size of the Police in general and more so the so-called Police family are perhaps naive. The Police is but one example, greater than most, of how Labour bloated the public sector without any regard whatsoever for future cost. They recruited more Police Officers than ever before and then on top of that, thousands of PCSOs. But they missed the point entirely. It's not about numbers. There are enough Police Officers in this country, it is how we're deployed and burden with with red tape and bureaucracy which prevents us being as effective as we might be. These are the issues that successive governments have failed to address and in most cases have compounded. Replacing a Police presence on the streets with an expensive civilian work-force was never the answer but an expensive gimmick introduced by a government, who were completely clueless on Policing - and one I might add that contributed more than any to the disappearance of the Police on the streets through it's centrally set obsession with targets and performance.

Edited by morek54, 27 November 2012 - 07:10 AM.


#185 OFFLINE   pacmanjo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

At the end of the day it ends up with the simple fact that PCSOs provide a useful role in today's police force. It helps the police remain engaged with the community and plays big part in the reassurance side of police. They are not and should not be considered as Police Officers. They do not do the same job and should be criticised for not being able to do the same thing. In the same way a DEO (Detention/Escort Officer)/ COA (Custody Officer's Assistant) is not a police officer. They have a specific role which helps the police force work. If there were no PCSO's the force would not function as well but would still carry on.


I'm not massively convinced by PCSOs and never have been, as people they are no different to you or I but the role they do could be more challenging and they could be utilised much more.

#186 OFFLINE   boudicea

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

Morek54 quotes: Sir James Anderton, Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police (1976-1991) said in 1982: "I see in our midst an enemy more dangerous,insidious and ruthless than any faced since the Second World War... a long term political strategy to destroy the proven structures of the police."

It is not just the Police structure that Common Purpose want to destroy, it is the very fabric of our public services, culture, identity, and history countrywide, and at present they are doing a good job. They use Neuro-linguistic programming to brainwash their 'graduates', although I would call them 5th column subversives being trained 'to lead beyond authority'. They are on an insidious fascist agenda to close down free speech using the racism laws, and various bodies are using Stasi tactics of detaining on spurious mental grounds or invented charges. Many of our Social Services are no better than the waffen SS, as the thought police Rochdale fostering debacle shows quite clearly. They are out to quash any political opposition by foul means. To see quite how many 'graduates' there are you can find a partial list at http://www.cpexposed.com/graduates . Marcus Tulius Cicero of ancient Rome was right about treachery within the gates and the corridors of power. The most insulting thing about them, is the fact that public money paid for the courses, which were on the surface management training.
I don't think that CPSOs will probably come into contact with these people, but attested officers might.

Edited by boudicea, 28 November 2012 - 12:28 AM.


#187 OFFLINE   Brookeini

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

Because PCSO's are not attested police constables, the constables training is harder and covers more subjects. and the authority given under the law to the constable is greater than most people would believe. As to attending a domestic being merely a security officer quitening it down and then typing it up, it seems to me you have never dealt with a domestic which has the potential to be more griefy than you would believe possible. The public would be better served if for every three PCSO's we instead employed two attested constables.

 

The public my be better served if attested constables actually went out and spoke to the public on a daily bases but they wouldn't the public feel better connected to PCSO's because they see them more. I am in no way saying PCSO's are police officers because they are not but i do feel they are a vital link between the police and the public and i feel this PCSO's are the reason that relationships are forming and confidence has grown! 

 

I have dealt with domestics and know that they are grief but at the end of the day you chose the career and some of us would love to be able to have the opportunity unfortunately in the current climate its not that easy



#188 OFFLINE   ammo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

 

The public my be better served if attested constables actually went out and spoke to the public on a daily bases but they wouldn't the public feel better connected to PCSO's because they see them more. I am in no way saying PCSO's are police officers because they are not but i do feel they are a vital link between the police and the public and i feel this PCSO's are the reason that relationships are forming and confidence has grown! 

 

I have dealt with domestics and know that they are grief but at the end of the day you chose the career and some of us would love to be able to have the opportunity unfortunately in the current climate its not that easy

 

The neighbourhood bobbies do go out and engage with the community in the same way, and response officers engage more at jobs and so don't have time to just sit and have a cup of tea with members of the community. Like I said PCSO's have the time do more engagement work but they aren't the only ones that do it.



#189 OFFLINE   boudicea

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:37 AM

 

The neighbourhood bobbies do go out and engage with the community in the same way, and response officers engage more at jobs and so don't have time to just sit and have a cup of tea with members of the community. Like I said PCSO's have the time do more engagement work but they aren't the only ones that do it.

I can remember a time just as other posters to this forum do, when we had bobbies living in the communities they policed, and walking the beat just as the PCSOs now do. I strongly believe that for whatever reason politicians wanted to distance the police from the people, and they almost succeeded. After they closed local police stations and houses, and bobbies on the beat stopped being from their own community, with the style of policing moving from pro-active policing deterring crime, to re-active policing only responding when the crime had been committed. Time for some old tried and tested methods of policing by attested constables, and fighting tooth and nail against privatisation of the police for profit. G4S took over the backroom duties of Lincolnshire police, and a few months later shed nearly half the staff. Where this company go, job losses follow.



#190 OFFLINE   ammo

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

I don't necessarily agree with the idea of bobbies policing the area where they live. This might be more practical in rural areas but can't say I would be too happy with the idea of working my own neighbourhood if I lived in a high crime area, or somewhere where there would be a good chance of you suffering retribution. Slightly off topic there though.



#191 OFFLINE   pacmanjo

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

I'm hoping you'd avoid living in a high crime area?Do you think the MD of Skoda drives a Fabia?

G4S took over the backroom duties of Lincolnshire police, and a few months later shed nearly half the staff. Where this company go, job losses follow.

As does common sense, efficient service and helpful staff.

Edited by pacmanjo, 09 March 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#192 OFFLINE   pacmanjo

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:09 PM

Because they are not sworn Police Officers, they are civilian staff.



#193 OFFLINE   david22294

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:13 PM

This sums it all up for me http://www.youtube.c...h?v=lxTslawkcYk



#194 OFFLINE   Street

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:47 AM

Some members of the public appreciate PCSO's, some dislike them. Some Officers appreciate PCSO's, some dislike them.

 

That will never change but aslong as the opinions of people do not create that much of a negative inpact on the work of PCSO's, let it be.



#195 OFFLINE   AranL

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:14 AM

Damn, PCSO's, PSO's and Police Officers are all awesome so lets all just chill and go get a brew!



#196 OFFLINE   gripper

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

I love it when this 9 year old thread, gets brought up..............again.

#197 OFFLINE   DoubleG

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

Me to. In the words of the scholar Harry Hill.....there's only one thing for it.....

#198 OFFLINE   Sub-seven

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:01 PM

86672d1329345740-husqvarna-346-spud-tune



#199 OFFLINE   Street

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:02 PM

Posted Image


Non-confrontational role mate...no can do!




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