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First Harassment Warning


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#1 doodlebuggy

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 08:19 PM

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I have received the above warning. The person concerned mixed facts with lies and was believed by the police. I understand this will appear on an Enhanced CRB check, can anyone please tell me of their experience of this and how likely it is - the Data Protection person at the local police station said they just decide on an individual basis, so I will never really know - I am training as a counsellor and will be working with vulnerable adults at some point and many places use Enhanced checks anyway and am dead scared it will completely ruin my life. Also, how long do they stay on my record for?

#2 SimonT

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 02:29 AM

As far as i am aware the first course of conduct warning doesnt go on national pnc. Just on the local force databases. I feel free to be corrected.
If i remember rightly, data tends to stay with us for a number of years, depending on the nature of the data. I would not worry about the situation. The best advise is stay well away from whoerver this person is, put them out of your mind. Its not a caution, conviction or anything like that so it should have no impact on your job potential.

#3 margamboy

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:37 AM

As far as i am aware the first course of conduct warning doesnt go on national pnc. Just on the local force databases. I feel free to be corrected.


Spot on Desmata, I don't even think this would come up on a CRB.

#4 Matty Hall

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 11:15 AM

Ist stage notices are on kept on local intelligence systems and these are not included on CRB checks.

:)

#5 Grumpy275

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 02:19 PM

As a matter of interest guys, are the full details recorded chapter and verse. From the persom making a complaint and the party who is accused. Or is it just one sided?

#6 SimonT

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 03:04 PM

the crime report will have the details of the information and allegation that came in. if you made representations about your side they will probably be recorded somewhere.

#7 doodlebuggy

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 01:09 PM

Would there be anywhere that could tell me for sure whether or not it will be included in an Enhanced CRB - is there a policy? The local CRB person said it was on a case by case basis and they decide whether or not it should be included. The inspector who decided I should get the warning was very very aggressive and didn't want to hear my side at all and said he would 'get something on me' if I argued with him anymore.

This could ruin my life, I can't believe I don't even have the right of reply or any right to appeal or present my side.

#8 Kopite

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 01:33 PM

It does not get listed on PNC and therefore will not show on your CRB checks. Should the matter progress, because the warning isnt heeded - then it will show on the above.

I must admit to having a strong dislike to this legislation, and find it is used poorly quite often. Logs come in and are marked "Harassment". Its a clear case of one person shouting about their side of an argument/disargeement, and the other person then gets a warning just so the logs can be closed. I think sometimes, officers dont have the strength to say "No" and to do more on scene investigation and find that its just a case of 'who cries loudest or first'. Most cases could have been avoided or prevented at source, if the persons involved did not approach/antagnoise a situation. And even more so, could be avoided if mobile numbers were changed and facebook pages blocked.

The age old adage of "just grow up" is quite often the case.

No doubt there are genuine cases, but like any job we attend - we should not be dealing with it unless it passes the threshold test and constitutes criminal offences.

#9 doodlebuggy

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:08 PM

It does not get listed on PNC and therefore will not show on your CRB checks. Should the matter progress, because the warning isnt heeded - then it will show on the above.

I must admit to having a strong dislike to this legislation, and find it is used poorly quite often. Logs come in and are marked "Harassment". Its a clear case of one person shouting about their side of an argument/disargeement, and the other person then gets a warning just so the logs can be closed. I think sometimes, officers dont have the strength to say "No" and to do more on scene investigation and find that its just a case of 'who cries loudest or first'. Most cases could have been avoided or prevented at source, if the persons involved did not approach/antagnoise a situation. And even more so, could be avoided if mobile numbers were changed and facebook pages blocked.

The age old adage of "just grow up" is quite often the case.

No doubt there are genuine cases, but like any job we attend - we should not be dealing with it unless it passes the threshold test and constitutes criminal offences.



Sorry if I am being thick but I understand in an Enhanced CRB check they give any/all information from Local Stations, which includes their own databases as well as the PNC, is this the case or are they bluffing/trying to scare me? I've read about it a bit on the net and some people have had warnings show up, it seems incredibly unfair.


This is from the CRB website:

Enhanced CRB Check
Enhanced checks are for posts involving work in a regulated activity for a regulated activity provider with children or vulnerable adults. In general, the type of work will involve regularly caring for, supervising, training or being in sole charge of such people. Examples include a Teacher, Scout or Guide leader. Enhanced checks are also issued for certain statutory purposes such as gaming and lottery licences.

Enhanced checks contain the same information as Standard checks but with the addition of a check of the new barred lists if requested and any locally held police force information considered relevant to the job role, by Chief Police Officer(s).


Please I would be grateful for any help with this

Edited by doodlebuggy, 22 April 2010 - 09:02 AM.


#10 Thassus

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 02:54 AM

Hi,

I have a problem. I used to date a girl about 12 months ago and we'd talk alot via email etc as you would do in a relationship. Anyway she broke contact giving no reason or anything and i naturally tried to ask her what was up. I tried to initiate a convo three times over about 6 or 7 weeks but a policeman turned up and made me sign something (a harassment warning?) to cease all contact. At the time i thought nothing of it, i heeded his advice and have never contacted her or seen her since. I've never broken the law or anything and i was shaking when me and the policeman were talking. The last thing i remember him saying is this 'Don't worry it goes no further, that's that.' but i'm now applying for sensitive jobs and have to have an enhanced CRB check done on me. This is extremely worrying. I'm not sure what this means for me in terms of this? I wasn't threatening or vulgar or anything like that, but i am well aware that the letter relates directly to the said offence. Some people have said that i actually received a caution and it will show on the enhanced crb, but the policeman was very pleasant with me and he smiled alot and even said 'i know this isn't harassment but its how other people perceive something and its best we act upon everything'. Personnally i'm not sure who to trust? i was able to get past this issue with his kindness but now an enhanced crb will be done i can't help feeling he was a smiling assassin on her behalf. She knew my ambitions and that i was a high achiever and i can't help fearing she's put a proverbial knife through my career prospects. Its actually quite gut-wrenching.

Edited by Thassus, 23 April 2010 - 02:57 AM.


#11 doodlebuggy

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 10:22 AM

Hi,

I have a problem. I used to date a girl about 12 months ago and we'd talk alot via email etc as you would do in a relationship. Anyway she broke contact giving no reason or anything and i naturally tried to ask her what was up. I tried to initiate a convo three times over about 6 or 7 weeks but a policeman turned up and made me sign something (a harassment warning?) to cease all contact. At the time i thought nothing of it, i heeded his advice and have never contacted her or seen her since. I've never broken the law or anything and i was shaking when me and the policeman were talking. The last thing i remember him saying is this 'Don't worry it goes no further, that's that.' but i'm now applying for sensitive jobs and have to have an enhanced CRB check done on me. This is extremely worrying. I'm not sure what this means for me in terms of this? I wasn't threatening or vulgar or anything like that, but i am well aware that the letter relates directly to the said offence. Some people have said that i actually received a caution and it will show on the enhanced crb, but the policeman was very pleasant with me and he smiled alot and even said 'i know this isn't harassment but its how other people perceive something and its best we act upon everything'. Personnally i'm not sure who to trust? i was able to get past this issue with his kindness but now an enhanced crb will be done i can't help feeling he was a smiling assassin on her behalf. She knew my ambitions and that i was a high achiever and i can't help fearing she's put a proverbial knife through my career prospects. Its actually quite gut-wrenching.



Do you think you could please start a new thread rather than hijack mine?

#12 nigeltm

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 10:35 AM

Do you think you could please start a new thread rather than hijack mine?

Take it easy mate, it's not a hijack as he is in the same situation as you and will benefit from the replies to your post.

#13 sykes

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 11:43 AM

People have given the re opinion as to what happens and you are still questioning them, that would suggest you need to seek clarification elsewhere most polic officers have no involvement with the process of releasing data for a crb check

I cant comment on you case dont know the details or the local policy, but the way you come across suggests there is more to this than you are quiet rightly going to reveal

Our policy for example would be early intervention after speaking to both parties and if required Harrasement warning could be given, this would be local info not on PNC and not relevant to any CRB checks, because at this stage it is a warning over past and future behaviour.
If a crime report is generated and investigated and this also results in a warning then it will be picked up on your CRB checks.
And as your last post states you have answered the question as local inforamtion is passed if considered relevant to the job role,

#14 flabber-my-gast

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 11:44 AM

In my opinion, as previusly mentioned, the harassment warnings do get misused. What i would say is that if i got given one that was malicious, then i would be fighting tooth and nail to get it sorted. Id be making an appointment with the Chief Superintendant, asking them to get it rescinded and for the them to speak with the officer concerned about why issued if false. Id also be speaking to a solicitor!! There you go guys!!

#15 doodlebuggy

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 12:55 PM

In my opinion, as previusly mentioned, the harassment warnings do get misused. What i would say is that if i got given one that was malicious, then i would be fighting tooth and nail to get it sorted. Id be making an appointment with the Chief Superintendant, asking them to get it rescinded and for the them to speak with the officer concerned about why issued if false. Id also be speaking to a solicitor!! There you go guys!!



I have spoken to a solicitor, as the inspector who instructed the PCs to give me the warning was threatening towards me when I telephoned to ask him why it was done, the solicitor said I should just keep my head down and it will go away. If I go questioning and causing problems for the inspector I have no doubt he will 'get something on me' as he said he would.

I live in a small place and am sure he could make my life hell. I have nowhere to turn I thought by posting here someone would have some experience in the area or know of the policy in the wider country rather than this webfooted county. I take your point that the police who issue the warnings don't seem to know how easily what they are doing can destroy someone's life.

#16 flabber-my-gast

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 01:08 PM

I have spoken to a solicitor, as the inspector who instructed the PCs to give me the warning was threatening towards me when I telephoned to ask him why it was done, the solicitor said I should just keep my head down and it will go away. If I go questioning and causing problems for the inspector I have no doubt he will 'get something on me' as he said he would.


If what you say above happened then the inspector is totally out of order! I would certainly be taking it further. Id be making an appointment to see his superior in person, not over the phone, and make a formal complaint. Id also be taking a witness with me. Id also speak with my local MP and explain what the inspector said. At the end of the day the Police are there to serve, not to bully. Its probably easier to try and fob you off than dealing with it correctly!!

#17 gloryhornet

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 02:28 PM

In my opinion, as previusly mentioned, the harassment warnings do get misused. What i would say is that if i got given one that was malicious, then i would be fighting tooth and nail to get it sorted. Id be making an appointment with the Chief Superintendant, asking them to get it rescinded and for the them to speak with the officer concerned about why issued if false. Id also be speaking to a solicitor!! There you go guys!!


A harassment warning, in my force and others, is just a proforma letter. It details the allegation that has been made and points out strongly that the police aren't taking sides but that in the spirit of crime prevention here's a rundown of the law on harassment. People are asked to sign them simply to say they have received the warning. In my force it's policy to give the person who receives it a copy. If it is malicious on the part of the complainant then so what? As I say to people all the time in respect of such allegations, "If you're doing it, stop doing it. If you've not done it carry on not doing it and you'll have nothing to worry about". It then gets recorded on a local police system so that we have a record of it in the event of a further allegation being made. It prevents the suspect saying, "If only you'd have warned me off officer I'd have stopped" and obviously exists because at some point some when it proved useful in a court of law.

Part of the reason for such a low level resolution is that, to put it frankly, we don't have the resources to go working out if every allegation made is true or not. How can we? This law is already misused by people who can't sort out their own lives so would rather the police did it for them. I also don't see how you can rescind a warning?? It's not a disposal, it's not a legal mechanism. It's a piece of paper with a statement explaining the relevant piece of law on it. It's issued to inform not to punish.

As for CRB checks picking it up...no ideas I'm afraid. I'm sure each force has it's own disclosure policy.

#18 Thassus

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 08:01 PM

It's pointless trying to overturn the warning mainly because i never aimed to do what they said i did in the first place. arguing about it will mean that i wish to continue on the course of conduct which i do not. This is why i signed it to draw a line under the hole affair - she cannot contact me and i am safe from her saying further that i contacted her. The local force said as i wasn't threatening or sexual it wasn't very serious but they wanted closure on it. Funny how we all want the same thing. I'm pretty sure i am right not to have declared it, all i can do now is wait and see. Thank you for your patience and sorry for treading on anyone's toes.

Edited by Thassus, 23 April 2010 - 08:35 PM.


#19 Thassus

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 01:23 AM

You may also find this from herefordshire police useful Doodlebuggy:

7.1.15 If only a single incident of harassment is reported that, of itself,
does not amount to a notifiable crime, an occurrence should be
recorded as a Non Crime 1st Instance of Harassment (RMS code
HAR).

It completely depends on each individual case i have come to realise, and so the police trying to assist us here are right in that the advice they can give is limited.

I would also say each force would treat such things differently although most would probably comform to a normal or similar standard.

I've almost finished my law exams but i must say 1st warnings have never been highlighted in a solitary instance, merely as backup evidence when criminal prosecutions are undertaken. Most cases where a warning is issued doesn't require solicitor assistance. Ultimately whether these warnings appear on an enhanced CRB check is in the chief superintendant's hands so it may be wise not to annoy these people. What i have researched with the help of my tutor is that warnings are given to prod you back onto the straight and narrow, not cause your life to spin off track to potentially cause bigger problems between the defendant and accuser. It is designed this way to protect malicious use of the warning. Warnings themselves can be skipped completely - they are not always given out, and far worse things could have happened to you if the 'lies' and 'false evidence' had been substantiated.

Chin up and stay optimistic.

Edited by Thassus, 24 April 2010 - 01:39 AM.


#20 doodlebuggy

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 09:47 AM

You may also find this from herefordshire police useful Doodlebuggy:

7.1.15 If only a single incident of harassment is reported that, of itself,
does not amount to a notifiable crime, an occurrence should be
recorded as a Non Crime 1st Instance of Harassment (RMS code
HAR).

It completely depends on each individual case i have come to realise, and so the police trying to assist us here are right in that the advice they can give is limited.

I would also say each force would treat such things differently although most would probably comform to a normal or similar standard.

I've almost finished my law exams but i must say 1st warnings have never been highlighted in a solitary instance, merely as backup evidence when criminal prosecutions are undertaken. Most cases where a warning is issued doesn't require solicitor assistance. Ultimately whether these warnings appear on an enhanced CRB check is in the chief superintendant's hands so it may be wise not to annoy these people. What i have researched with the help of my tutor is that warnings are given to prod you back onto the straight and narrow, not cause your life to spin off track to potentially cause bigger problems between the defendant and accuser. It is designed this way to protect malicious use of the warning. Warnings themselves can be skipped completely - they are not always given out, and far worse things could have happened to you if the 'lies' and 'false evidence' had been substantiated.

Chin up and stay optimistic.


Thanks, I'm sorry for being arsey I am soo distressed by this whole thing, if anything shows up on my enhanced CRB my career is over, I need to check with someone maybe the Chief Super, not to complain but just to give my side and find out if I can have some assurance it won't be included.




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