tango delta 1

Muslim daubs war memorial with 'Islam will dominate the world' -

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A Muslim protester who daubed a war memorial with graffiti glorifying Osama Bin Laden and proclaiming 'Islam will dominate the world' walked free from court after prosecutors ruled his actions were not motivated by religion.

Tohseef Shah, 21, could have faced a tougher sentence if the court had accepted that the insults - which included a threat to kill the Prime Minister - were inspired by religious hatred.

But - citing a loophole in the law - the Crown Prosecution Service chose not to charge him with that offence and he escaped with only a two-year conditional discharge and an order to pay the council £500 compensation after admitting causing criminal damage.

Yesterday the decision was attacked by politicians and veterans who were shocked by the desecration of the memorial in Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire.

Islamic message: Tohseef Shah's graffiti 'Islam will dominate the world' was not religiously motivated, according to the Crown Prosecution Service

Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, chairman of the Parliamentary Counter Terrorism sub-committee, said: 'This is an outrage against our war dead.'

Shah sprayed the words 'Islam will dominate the world - Osama

is on his way' and 'Kill Gordon Brown' on the plinth of the memorial in December.

He was arrested after his DNA was found on the discarded spray-can but refused to give an explanation for his actions or show any remorse, a court heard.

A file was sent to lawyers at the Counter Terrorism Division of the CPS in London to see if there was a racially or religiously motivated connotation.

However when Shah appeared before magistrates this week, prosecutor Andrew Bodger said: 'It was decided there was not enough evidence to prove this, and they decided it was politically motivated.'

Unrepentant: the court heard that Mr Shah had shown 'no remorse'

Defending, Mumtaz Chaudry said Shah did not hold extremist views. 'This is nothing to do with his religious beliefs, his family's beliefs or his cultural beliefs,' he said. 'He is just an ordinary guy.

'He is remorseful, but at the time of his interview he was simply answering questions and didn't realise that was the right time to show remorse.'

Local veterans reacted with horror last night. Roy Whenman, 78, who fought in the Korean War, said: 'If what he wrote on the memorial wasn't evidence of racial or religious hatred then what is?

'The memorial commemorates people of my generation who died for our freedom as well as those fighting in wars today.

'It's diabolical that someone could deface it in this way.'

Community leaders among Burton- upon-Trent's 4,000-strong Muslim population also slammed Shah's actions.

Khadim Thathall, a former president of a mosque in the town, said: 'This young man has clearly been radicalised by groups which are looking to cause trouble and it's a pity that the court hasn't been able to deal with him more strictly.'

Shah - believed to be a former student of De Montfort University in Leicester - uses as his Facebook profile photograph a flaming lion's head superimposed on crossed Kalashnikov rifles.

He lives with his parents in a £200,000 detached house and works at his father's car spares shop. Last night, he refused to discuss the case.

Instead he appointed Abdullah Ibn Abbas, who described himself as spiritual leader of a group called Road to Jannah, to speak on his behalf.

He said: 'It really doesn't concern us how the British people feel about the graffiti he wrote - the real outrage should be about the thousands of Muslims who are being killed and butchered as a result of British foreign policy.'

The CPS said Shah's offence could not be charged as a hate crime because the law requires that damage must target a particular religious or racial group.

It said: 'While it was appreciated that what was sprayed on the memorial may have been perceived by some to be part of a racial or religious incident, no racial or religious group can be shown to have been targeted.'

The case comes after a senior judge ruled on Thursday that Christian beliefs had no right to protection by the courts.

Lord Justice Laws told Christian counsellor Gary McFarlane he had no right to appeal after he was sacked for refusing to give sex therapy to a gay couple.

The judge said legal protection for views held purely on religious grounds would be 'irrational'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270021/British-Muslim-daubs-war-memorial-Islamic-slogans--CPS-says-NOT-racially-motivated.html#ixzz0mhzmCrUV

this man was guilty A Muslim protester who daubed a war memorial with graffiti glorifying Osama Bin Laden and proclaiming 'Islam will dominate the world' walked free from court after prosecutors ruled his actions were not motivated by religion.

Tohseef Shah, 21, could have faced a tougher sentence if the court had accepted that the insults - which included a threat to kill the Prime Minister - were inspired by religious hatred.

But - citing a loophole in the law - the Crown Prosecution Service chose not to charge him with that offence and he escaped with only a two-year conditional discharge and an order to pay the council £500 compensation after admitting causing criminal damage.

Yesterday the decision was attacked by politicians and veterans who were shocked by the desecration of the memorial in Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire.

Islamic message: Tohseef Shah's graffiti 'Islam will dominate the world' was not religiously motivated, according to the Crown Prosecution Service

Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, chairman of the Parliamentary Counter Terrorism sub-committee, said: 'This is an outrage against our war dead.'

Shah sprayed the words 'Islam will dominate the world - Osama

is on his way' and 'Kill Gordon Brown' on the plinth of the memorial in December.

He was arrested after his DNA was found on the discarded spray-can but refused to give an explanation for his actions or show any remorse, a court heard.

A file was sent to lawyers at the Counter Terrorism Division of the CPS in London to see if there was a racially or religiously motivated connotation.

However when Shah appeared before magistrates this week, prosecutor Andrew Bodger said: 'It was decided there was not enough evidence to prove this, and they decided it was politically motivated.'

Unrepentant: the court heard that Mr Shah had shown 'no remorse'

Defending, Mumtaz Chaudry said Shah did not hold extremist views. 'This is nothing to do with his religious beliefs, his family's beliefs or his cultural beliefs,' he said. 'He is just an ordinary guy.

'He is remorseful, but at the time of his interview he was simply answering questions and didn't realise that was the right time to show remorse.'

Local veterans reacted with horror last night. Roy Whenman, 78, who fought in the Korean War, said: 'If what he wrote on the memorial wasn't evidence of racial or religious hatred then what is?

'The memorial commemorates people of my generation who died for our freedom as well as those fighting in wars today.

'It's diabolical that someone could deface it in this way.'

Community leaders among Burton- upon-Trent's 4,000-strong Muslim population also slammed Shah's actions.

Khadim Thathall, a former president of a mosque in the town, said: 'This young man has clearly been radicalised by groups which are looking to cause trouble and it's a pity that the court hasn't been able to deal with him more strictly.'

Shah - believed to be a former student of De Montfort University in Leicester - uses as his Facebook profile photograph a flaming lion's head superimposed on crossed Kalashnikov rifles.

He lives with his parents in a £200,000 detached house and works at his father's car spares shop. Last night, he refused to discuss the case.

Instead he appointed Abdullah Ibn Abbas, who described himself as spiritual leader of a group called Road to Jannah, to speak on his behalf.

He said: 'It really doesn't concern us how the British people feel about the graffiti he wrote - the real outrage should be about the thousands of Muslims who are being killed and butchered as a result of British foreign policy.'

The CPS said Shah's offence could not be charged as a hate crime because the law requires that damage must target a particular religious or racial group.

It said: 'While it was appreciated that what was sprayed on the memorial may have been perceived by some to be part of a racial or religious incident, no racial or religious group can be shown to have been targeted.'

The case comes after a senior judge ruled on Thursday that Christian beliefs had no right to protection by the courts.

Lord Justice Laws told Christian counsellor Gary McFarlane he had no right to appeal after he was sacked for refusing to give sex therapy to a gay couple.

The judge said legal protection for views held purely on religious grounds would be 'irrational'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270021/British-Muslim-daubs-war-memorial-Islamic-slogans--CPS-says-NOT-racially-motivated.html#ixzz0mhzmCrUV

one word for this sick person :angry: and as a mop the way the CPS delt with the case :angry:

Edited by tango delta 1

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What a depressing story

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What a depressing story

it is and he should have got jail time and the war memorial is there for our brave lads who died at war not for some person to write over it and walk free from justice with only a two-year conditional discharge and an order to pay the council £500 compensation :angry:

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Oh for the day the world population recognises the concepts of islam and christianity to be as credible as the tooth fairy. Any hope of world peace is gradually being destroyed by this banal "my gang's better than your gang" nonsense.

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Criminal justice should be much more about prevention as retribution. Indeed it should be more about prevention. Sentencing decisions should be made with an eye towards the future and not so much looking at the past.

What lesson is therefore given to the public and world at large when a scumbag like that walks away with impunity? What lesson is given to him as an individual, a person who is free to walk our streets and insult us only because of the sacrifices that other men made. Only bad lessons all round from what I can see.

We should punish criminals to prevent such crimes in future. The application of law should be directed to the future not the past. It clearly hasn't done so in this case.

Edited by zebadee

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He got a conditional discharge 2yrs , in view of the legal points governing the case , this would seem to be more of a detterent for two years enabling more certain retribution if he should be tempted again JMHO

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It's not so much him I feel as the warning to others that is lacking here. It would be interesting to know what other jurisdictions make of these matters in comparable circumstances. Funny how the court didn't spot a religious hate motive, yet as soon as he's outside he has his own religious bigot answering for him.

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I dealt with a similar case where a BNP activist put up posters in his windows condemning Islam.He was eventually found not guilty so it cuts both ways.

I have to agree with Soren though when will people realise that it is ALL fairy stories there is no God or afterlife.Its all sets of rules the brighter ones in the tribes dreamed up to keep thousands of years ago the drones in order.All the priniciples are roughly the same in all religions.

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II have to agree with Soren though when will people realise that it is ALL fairy stories there is no God or afterlife.

Your evidence for that is what?

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Your evidence for that is what?

I'm not answering for JamesC, but my view is the same.

I look on it that years ago people didn't understand climate conditions, illness etc, and as such made sacrifices to Gods too make sure crops grew, or calmed the sea, buried mummified cats in houses to detract evil, sacrified thousands of POWs in Southern America to keep the Gods happy, built huge pyramids full of treasures for the afterlife,etc etc, and anything else that went wrong or they didn't understand they blamed the Gods for.

Now science has come in, as well as archaelogy, with has blown pretty much all these theories out the water; I've never seen any proof of any religion in my life at all, things like plants growing is down to nature, animals and plants is evolution, not creationism, and until I see some miracle with my own eyes, my view won't change.

Edited by mikeh2000

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I'm not answering for JamesC, but my view is the same.

and until I see some miracle with my own eyes, my view won't change.

laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif It is a miracle i lasted on this site for so long. DO YOU BELIEVE? laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

smiley_notworthy.gifsmiley_notworthy.gifsmiley_notworthy.gifsmiley_notworthy.gifsmiley_notworthy.gifsmiley_notworthy.gif

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There is no proof, that is why it is called a faith. Also, there are many eminent scientists who are also devout Christians and Muslims.

There is a reason why Islam, Judaism and Christianity are similar and that is because they are of 'the book'. Eastern religions of course differ but tend to believe in rebirth and reincarnation. Have to go as I am in the middle of making a souffle and should be following my on line recipe!

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The 'Book' though was written hundreds of year after the 'event' happened, and if you've ever tried to take a statement from someone a few weeks later, they tend to have forgotten stuff at the best of times; hundreds of years later they'd be dead though, with no way of knowing whats real and whats chinese whispers.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_Bible_written

Edited by mikeh2000

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True enough, and this is also the case for the major Eastern religions as well (inasmuch a lot of the teachings were passed on verbally).

All I can add is that I tend to think a lot of the religions do preach peace but, some decide to reinterpret to suit their own (usually political) ends. FWIW I am nether a Christian, Jew or Muslim but, I do envy those that have true faith as it must be a great comfort to them. Especially when we have tended to become a materialistic, self centred society mainly interested in ourselves.

It sounds like the usual story of the minority extremists colouring the picture and distorting what I think the 'true' message is about ie peace, respect, loving others - whatever your religious beliefs happen to be.

Dont forget that students, or rather, a student, was disrespectful at the cenotaph. What makes this story different is that the accused/convicted was unrepentant. Also a lot of people are not aware of historical events where muslims saved the lives of jews during the second world war etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/05/muslim-soldiers-first-world-war

Edited by meditate

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I think I need to add a caveat on 'proof'. I believe the Roman Catholic Church require it if they are going through the stages of making someone a saint - ie proof of a miracle. I would also think that other religions label other acts etc as proof which a non -believer would still be sceptical or doubtful about - but I think the 'faith' vs 'proof' distinction broadly holds up though.

Edited by meditate

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If there was an iota of proof, or even a scintilla of circumstantial evidence to support any religion, it would hugely change the way that religion is perceived and followed.

The fact that there is no evidence is cited by both theists and atheists to be supportive of their stance.

If there was incontrovertible evidence that intercessory prayer worked, we'd all have to believe in God (it'd be mad not to) because there is evidence to support a supernatural intervention? That's why it doesn't and can't work.

If there was evidence that God was necessary for the universe and us to exist, then we'd have to believe in God? That's one of the primary reasons that our ancestors believed in a God - ignorance. But because we know so much more, and that so much more is explained by evolution and scientific knowledge, God is now the God Of The Gaps, the god of the bits that are still unexplained.

Is there any evidence anywhere that God has done anything in the last 1900 years to help a world that He "so loved"? Answer - no - and there can't be, because we'd then all be able to believe in him without the requirement for faith.

I don't care if people want to believe in a God of whatever flavour or Bertrand Russell's Celestial Teapot. But please allow the rest of us who have the dignity to peacefully and individually understand the reason, value and wonder of nature to do so without being in any way affected by these totally preposterous unfounded beliefs.

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If there was an iota of proof, or even a scintilla of circumstantial evidence to support any religion, it would hugely change the way that religion is perceived and followed.

The fact that there is no evidence is cited by both theists and atheists to be supportive of their stance.

If there was incontrovertible evidence that intercessory prayer worked, we'd all have to believe in God (it'd be mad not to) because there is evidence to support a supernatural intervention? That's why it doesn't and can't work.

If there was evidence that God was necessary for the universe and us to exist, then we'd have to believe in God? That's one of the primary reasons that our ancestors believed in a God - ignorance. But because we know so much more, and that so much more is explained by evolution and scientific knowledge, God is now the God Of The Gaps, the god of the bits that are still unexplained.

Is there any evidence anywhere that God has done anything in the last 1900 years to help a world that He "so loved"? Answer - no - and there can't be, because we'd then all be able to believe in him without the requirement for faith.

I don't care if people want to believe in a God of whatever flavour or Bertrand Russell's Celestial Teapot. But please allow the rest of us who have the dignity to peacefully and individually understand the reason, value and wonder of nature to do so without being in any way affected by these totally preposterous unfounded beliefs.

I think your argument pretty much nails it. If we had proof then you would be mad not to become a believer - and if this happened faith would go out of the window and, therefore, no distinction between those who were going to be saved and those who needed to 'see the light'. the only objectionists would then be those who were bent on self destruction, o,r wanted another god to rise up and overthrow the existing proven one!

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I would be very concerned if it turned out there was a god, who wanted us to worship them. Surely anyone who has reached godhood would be above such things.

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Nice (if disappointing) story.

The prosecutor mentioned is Andrew Bodger and he's a nice guy. He woke me up once before I was due to give evidence at a trial, I'd fallen asleep in the waiting room after a nightshift.

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