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#1 OFFLINE   AndyG

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:46 PM

Okay, so you're on the beat, and there's a firearms incident in your area. Lives are in immediate danger and you know a FAC holder on the way. Would you be justified in borrowing a rifle and ending the situation?

With no ARV for a half hour.

#2 OFFLINE   SimonT

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

Nope, you would be looking at a murder charge most likely.

#3 OFFLINE   scousejon

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:36 PM

The only thing getting ended would be your career and freedom

#4 OFFLINE   Nykad21

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:52 PM

What's a FAC holder?

#5 OFFLINE   westmidscop

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:09 PM

Nope, you would be looking at a murder charge most likely.


Along with a range of offences in relation to being in possession of a firearm and ammunition without certificate or permit, and misconduct offences and the list goes on.

Your scenario is far too vague for it to be even considered an option. how many lives are in danger, how are they in danger, what other courses of action have or could be taken to reduce or negate the loss of life or stop the offender, the list goes on and on.

At the end of the day, police officers operate inside the law, and the policies and procedures laid down by their leaders. These are in place to proctect the organisation, the public and the officers. The actions you are suggesting, no matter how noble and heroic you, or hollywood might think they are, they are outside the law and are placing you and others at serious risk of harm.

Without sounding cold, the people already at risk from this gunman are already at risk. Why introduce more possible victims to the situation?

#6 OFFLINE   firepower

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:13 PM

No, they will wait for the ARV to turn up and watch people die for as long as it takes it to get there.

#7 OFFLINE   Moxnil

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:23 PM

No, they will wait for the ARV to turn up and watch people die for as long as it takes it to get there.


But the anti-gun crowd will, as they always do, fail to accept responsibility for any deaths that have occurred due to their legislation.

#8 OFFLINE   firepower

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:33 PM

But the anti-gun crowd will, as they always do, fail to accept responsibility for any deaths that have occurred due to their legislation.

Good point.

#9 ONLINE   cheesedoff

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

Which Force can't get an ARV to an immediate risk to life job in under half an hour?

#10 OFFLINE   Sub-seven

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:30 PM

What's a FAC holder?


Firearms Certificate?

#11 OFFLINE   Traffic Rat

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:54 AM

Which Force can't get an ARV to an immediate risk to life job in under half an hour?


Loads of Rural Forces, Mine if they are on a job one side of the county and this happened the other side and its rural roads to get to the village location.

#12 OFFLINE   firepower

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

Firearms Certificate?


Yes it is.


ATB Mick

#13 OFFLINE   firepower

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:01 PM

Which Force can't get an ARV to an immediate risk to life job in under half an hour?


When Bird went postal they dispatched immediately but to the wrong place.

They apparently passed him on the way because they were dispatched to where the shots had been fired. That put them at a tactical disadvantage as he was moving from place to place. Response time was irrelevant.




ATB Mick

#14 ONLINE   cheesedoff

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:37 PM

When Bird went postal they dispatched immediately but to the wrong place.

They apparently passed him on the way because they were dispatched to where the shots had been fired. That put them at a tactical disadvantage as he was moving from place to place. Response time was irrelevant.




ATB Mick

If they were sent to the place where shots were fired then they were not sent to the wrong place.
The question was a genuine one where i was questioning the OP in relation to the ARV being half an hour away.
This was then answered by TR.

#15 OFFLINE   firepower

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:28 PM

I meant the wrong place as in Bird was elsewhere carrying on his spree. No ones fault just one of those things.


ATB Mick

#16 OFFLINE   Rudi

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:58 PM

If people were being shot/stabbed and I could do something to stop it I would. If that meant running them over or shooting them and there was no other option them so be it.

#17 OFFLINE   GeorgeH

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:21 AM

This is a political question. There is no right or wrong answer. Let me change the scenaro:

Let's say you have a very, very attractive 19 year old daughter. Unknown to her, she is being stalked by someone who intends to rape her. When the assault takes place what should she do: submit or resist?

#18 OFFLINE   SimonT

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:13 PM

That's a completely different situation in just about every way possible. Probably better to start a new thread.
My opinion though is whatever she deems best or possible at the time

#19 OFFLINE   Moxnil

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:10 PM

That's a completely different situation in just about every way possible. Probably better to start a new thread.
My opinion though is whatever she deems best or possible at the time


Which is precisely what? By trying to "pass the buck" for the decision making, you're avoiding answering the question. It's a very simple one. If you had a daughter, and someone tried to rape her and she had a choice between submitting or resisting, which should she pick?

#20 OFFLINE   SimonT

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:16 PM

Whatever she deems possible at the time!

#21 OFFLINE   Moxnil

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

Whatever she deems possible at the time!


Goodness sake, it's like drawing blood from a stone! What would you tell her to do Simon? I'm not asking you for specifics, I'm just asking whether you'd prefer your daughter to let herself be raped, or try fighting it.

It seems very straightforward to me. I'd be telling her to fight, fight dirty, and do whatever she needed to stop the attacker.

Edited by Moxnil, 27 August 2012 - 02:24 PM.


#22 ONLINE   gripper

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:37 PM

Calm down, where is a mod when you need one.

#23 OFFLINE   Moxnil

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:42 PM

Calm down, where is a mod when you need one.


:blink: :blink:

What are you talking about?

Edited by Moxnil, 27 August 2012 - 02:42 PM.


#24 ONLINE   gripper

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:45 PM

They are like buses

#25 OFFLINE   SimonT

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:49 PM

I would tell her to do what she felt was best in the situation, from doing nothing to putting her thumbs through her attackers eyes. its not for me to say what she should do in a situation that horrific.There are just too many factors which are unknown. You cant say do x and it will work out




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