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Police Pension Destroyed


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#1 MeanMachine

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

I don't know about you guys but that little pot of gold at the end of my rainbow meant a lot to the wife and I. Use a little to clear the mortgage, buy a camper van, do a cruise, help the boy get a house and get him on his feet in this terrible housing market and simply enjoy the rest as we should. Well.....thanks to our goverment that dream is over. We give so much good will to this job and this is how we're treated. The federation did so much but could have done more. What more is there to say? Absolutely gutted. This job will get very little out of me from here on. I'm done going above and beyond anymore.

#2 SimonT

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:56 PM

I think a lot of people feel the same. The contract between us and them was very clear and they moved the goal posts so I see no reason not to move the goal posts myself. They did it because of 'financial need' so that's why I'm doing it.
I can't afford to get injured if I want to get to 60 still policing

#3 scousejon

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 05:17 PM

What SimonT said. Dissapointing day

#4 Sectioned Detection

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:07 AM

They did it because of 'financial need' so that's why I'm doing it.
I can't afford to get injured if I want to get to 60 still policing


THIS^^^^^

#5 MeanMachine

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:29 AM

There have been some tough days in this career but this is up there with the worst. Back to the drawing board now and replan my budget retirement plan. Thanks Mrs May. I hope my tax money pay for lots of nice expenses for you and your family.

#6 znra251

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:14 PM

very simply they do not want people to enter policing as a career (other than the hand picked senior officers who will be parachuted in).

They want you to do 5 or 10 years, get a meagre pension and move onto another job unable to claim your police pension until 68.

Sad day for policing, in one day I lost about 45K in lump sum and have to work another 3 years for the same benefit while paying 33% more for it. I am one of the lucky ones I know people who have had 12 extra years put on.

still who needs experienced motivated officers who dedicate their entire career to serving the public?

#7 Dragonfly

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:52 AM

I saw a post on Facebook recently which suggested that the French and Dutch police took their case to the European Court of Appeal and they won which basically ruled the pensions had to stay as they were...

Don't suppose anyone is aware of this or has a link... To the ruling

I can't locate it

#8 BadgerC

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:23 AM

I'm in my late 30's and hope to be joining as a police officer soon. I fully expect to have to work until I'm at least 60 anyway so can anyone offer a perspective on how the police pension will pan out for me as a new recruit? I'm guessing that it must still be a good scheme in comparison with private pension plans?

Really feel for those with diminished pensions as my Dad is in a similar boat with his private plan and has had to revise his thoughts re retirement.

#9 gripper

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:35 AM

Reading between the lines, I don't think the fed will be taking this to court.
As they did get us some concessions.
Let's hope the teachers, and others that can take industrial action, can put pressure on them to change the plans.

#10 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

I am in a very lucky position with less than 5 to do.However I have tried to stir up some emotion amongst younger in service officers basically through those who I tutored around pensions and Winsor.There is definitely a head in the sand mentality that it will all go away and the fed will sort it all out.Some simply refuse to even acknowledge changes are imminent one female on my team with 8 years service has 'had a word' with another PC who is married to a boss who has reassurred her that everything will be fine so apparently the problems are now all solved! You couldn't make it up.I pointed out to her that she will now have to work front line as from 01.12.12 when her tenure is up on our team from being 43 to 60 as office jobs are going (ours certainly will and we do meet suspects face to face).Her face was like I was winding her up or being nasty.People need to realise the extent of the shafting we are getting and do something about it,get writing to your MPs,e-mail your fed reps.There are lots of things we can is we put our minds to it all without breaking a single rule.However there is no solidarity any more the Fed has rolled over certainly in England.Scotland fed are taking a tougher stance and Wales seem to be waking up.Its a huge mess folks.

#11 devil

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:36 PM

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. I think I will follow suit. I've just finished weekend nights. Minimum staffing 9 we had 5 on so none stop all weekend. A knifepoint robbery, theft of cars, a pursuit, a scene and 2 packages to name a few jobs meant as usual no break. Anyway have a read for yourself:

http://www.surreypf....page=mealbreaks

#12 devil

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:27 PM

I wonder if it would be financially a good investment to withdraw from the pension and spend the extra money on lottery tickets? Both are a gamble but at least with the lottery I might see a return.

#13 gripper

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:38 PM

It's been mentioned at work.
And scratch cards.

#14 devil

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:50 PM

I had another idea. See how much a taco bell franchise would be and all chip in our contributions to buy a few and share out the profits. I haven't fully thought this idea through but could work.

#15 Frank Drebin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:14 PM

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. I think I will follow suit. I've just finished weekend nights. Minimum staffing 9 we had 5 on so none stop all weekend. A knifepoint robbery, theft of cars, a pursuit, a scene and 2 packages to name a few jobs meant as usual no break. Anyway have a read for yourself:

http://www.surreypf....page=mealbreaks


Quoted from the link,....

The Police Regulations 2003 (as ammended) state that every officer should be given a mealbreak and the time allowed depends on the length of the shift that you work


They key word in there is should. We are at the moment routinely being told buy supervision and the comms room we cannot ref. Sometimes for outstanding immediate (grade 1) calls, but also often because there are too many high (grade 2) calls on the open list awaiting attendance. This is often driven by dispatchers who have a tendency to flap like a good'un if there are a number of calls on the open list, and has been prevalent over the Olympic period where we have been operating with numbers on section so low that they are often described as dangerous at other times (ie: when denying A/L requests)

#16 MeanMachine

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:18 PM

As from next month myself and most other officers I know are pulling out of the federation. It's a waste of money. If I need legal help I have it covered on my home insurance. I'll put that and a little extra into another private pension. Better in my pocket than theirs eh! I'll just have to buy my own diary from now on.

#17 Dragonfly

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:28 PM

The European Working Time Directives state that every worker must receive a twenty minute break during their working day.
The Police Regulations 2003 (as ammended) state that every officer should be given a mealbreak and the time allowed depends on the length of the shift that you work:
Shift Break
Less than 6 hours 30 minutes
6 or more hours but less than 7 35 minutes
7 or more hours but less than 8 40 minutes
8 or more hours but less than 9 45 minutes
9 or more hours but less than 10 50 minutes
10 or more hours 60 minutes

Where the Regulations are more favourable than the Working Time Directives the most beneficial to the employee apply and so the Police Regulations apply.

The only time that you can be required to forego a break is if there is an exigency of duty.

This means something urgent, pressing and unforeseen. This might include a major incident requiring significant resources. It does NOT include a 999 call. 999 calls whilst urgent and possibly pressing are not unforeseen and are normal business for the police.

Sufficient resources should be provided to enable officers to answer 999 calls and take breaks. It should only be in exceptional circumstances that you do not get a break NOT a regular occurence.If officers do not get breaks they can take the organisation to an Employment Tribunal.

There have been two interesting cases that are applicable to the police that have been won by employees.In North Wales a custody sergeant had no opportunity to take a break as there was no provision by the organisation to provide cover to allow them to do so. His inspector told him to take a break within the custody suite as and when he could. An Employment Tribunal ruled that the custody sergeant must be provided with a break and that break should be away from the workplace. i.e. outside of the custody suite.

A British Airways employee was advised by their manager to take a break as and when they could during their shift.

The employee regularly had no opportunity to take a break. An employment Tribunal ruled that this was unacceptable and it was for the employees managers to organise a time and cover for a break to be taken.Employment Tribunal cases are not binding on other Employment Tribunals in the same way as Courts are.

Nonetheless, these two cases are very applicable to Custody and response within Surrey Police and give a clear idea as to what is acceptable regarding breaks.Surrey Police Federation are currently working with the senior management to ensure that custody and response staff receive their statutory breaks.

#18 jacko6686

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Does that mean I could take the ambulance service to tribunal? Currently on a 10 hour shift we get 37.5 mins and on a 12 hour we get 45 mins.

And they are trying to reduce these!

#19 sykes

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:24 PM

So we have a situation where the politicians (this includes that group called ACPO) have shafted us it seems so what do people do blame the federation,there are many faults with the fed and local and national level and they do need a wake up call but in terms of pensions they have no rights to appeal HMG can have and will change pension conditions as they see fit. not sure how thats the Feds fault still blame the fed is the current flavour so it must be their fault. cancelling sub and leaving FED id a individuals choice however i dont buy into the most people i know are leaving a few like minded people is probably a truer reflection but like everything else if people are thinking of leaving same as coming out the pension then take sound advice from experts dont follow like a lost sheep the parade room loudmouths or anonymous postings on a forum, its big decision that your going to have to live with for a long time.

There no doubt the pension what we are going to get is a pale shadow of the current schemes but taking that aside and looking at it from a product point of view it is still a very good scheme in terms of what else is currently available

in terms of regulation working time directives its down to individuals to know what they are entitled to and to stop bending over to make the job work, its also a reflection on the poor standard of first and second line supervisors i they dont look after their staff again only those who toe the corporate line get promoted

We cant keep blaming everyone else for the current problems /changes if as individuals we dont stand up for our own rights, the police service has never in my time involved been such a true reflection of society with more and more officers wanting everything but its for someone else to get it for them

yes the Federation has many faults however before blaming them for everything individuals need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves, What am i doing to preserve our terms and conditions,protect our pensions and our welfare ?

#20 SimonT

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:18 PM

I dont blame the fed, i see them as a mirror of ourselves. We are charged with stopping crime and protecting people, we have no power to make that happen, we can only try. The fed are charged with protecting us and keeping our pension going, but they have no power to do that. Yes they could be using the media more, banging more drums etc, but there is a hell of a lot of stuff we could be doing to shut crime down but we arnt doing it.

One thing the fed could do, or does that i dont know about is produce a leaflet on officers rights. Not something dry and complex like most things produced by any organisation but a clear layout of exactly what we can get and what we should not accept.

I recently claimed for food i had to buy on an op where we were on for 16 hours with no food. People thought i was mad. But i got paid. If everyone claimed they might stop leaving us hanging out there with no food to eat for unending shifts.




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