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Dot marked race tyres in the UK, are they road legal?


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#1 Bill Bingley

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

Are there any legal reasonas why these tyres won't be road legal in the UK? They are in the US?

http://www.bfgoodric...#techspec_table

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Not practical but not that much different to Toyo R888's etc which are E marked just they don't make 888's in the size I'm after.

Bill

* Reasons stupid phone!

#2 blueb

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:50 AM

You have pretty much answered your own question - there are lots of little markngs on a tyre that can be used in the UK that are, presumably, missing from the above, and so not suitable for use here.
If nothing else, from the way the link reads they start off at just over 3mm, so you have about 1.4mm of usage tread maximum.

#3 RBM

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

You have pretty much answered your own question - there are lots of little markngs on a tyre that can be used in the UK that are, presumably, missing from the above, and so not suitable for use here.
If nothing else, from the way the link reads they start off at just over 3mm, so you have about 1.4mm of usage tread maximum.

what offence would be committed if you drove a car on UK roads that didnt have CE marked tyres ?

#4 Bill Bingley

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:07 AM

The DOT marked tyres have the same information on the sidewall as far as speed/load ratings. I know more normal DOT legal tyres can be road legal in the UK afaik. My question is what's not legal about using tyres such as these?

#5 sykes

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:02 AM

As far I understand it is illegal for anyone to sell or fit non E marked tyres for use in the UK , the uses of non E marked tyres is a grey area there are potential construction and use issues, I would imagine the way the industry work your insurance company would give you a massive hike in premium or if you didnt tell them it would invalidate your insurance, there are plenty of car enthusiast sites around for those who have such a fascination with black rubber do a search ive no doubt this kind of question comes up on a regular basis and if you look harder enough someone will give the answer you want

#6 Bill Bingley

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

I've searched all around googled results with no solid information coming back.

I was under the impression this forum would be the place to ask. I'm on many car related forums & I've asked with no firm answer.

My insurance company are a very specialist broker who are very understanding.

I have friends with US style hot rods who run dot marked tyres all the time with no issues at all. The difference is the tread pattern on these tyres but that's why I'm interested in them ;)

Bill

#7 RBM

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:13 AM

I've searched all around googled results with no solid information coming back.

I was under the impression this forum would be the place to ask. I'm on many car related forums & I've asked with no firm answer.

My insurance company are a very specialist broker who are very understanding.

I have friends with US style hot rods who run dot marked tyres all the time with no issues at all. The difference is the tread pattern on these tyres but that's why I'm interested in them ;)

Bill

my UNDERSTANDING is that tyres are one of only three car components that need to be type approved for sale in the uk, the others being lights and exhausts, however there is no offence of using them if they otherwise meet the requirements,. other wise any personal import from japan or the states couldn't be driven on UK roads till the lights, exhaust and tyres were changed
of course there is also number plates which have a dispensation from BS for personal import cars

the problem with those tyres is they look like slicks, so may or may not meet the RTA requirements for tread depth and it would certainly make an interesting court case if you got stuck with a ticket for a bald tyres, so personally id leave them alone as more trouble than they are worth

Edited by RBM, 09 October 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#8 RBM

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:29 AM

too llsagh thee above, hen the latest generation of semi slick motorbike tyres first hit the streets, people were getting stuck with bald tyres tickets all over the shop, these cases were defended by the retailers on the grounds they had to be legal as they had EU approval, this obviously wouldn't be an argument open to you and unless you have deep pockets your open to a miscarriage of justice you can do little about

#9 blueb

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

RBM - personal export vehicles as you describe are required to have the lights etc updated to suit this country, if they are not, then they will fail to comply which would amount to an offence.

DOT only has relevance in the US as it referes to the Department of Transportation and is a US requirement on a tyre to show specific details which means the manufacturer has complied with various manufacturing features etc to comply with US regs. Consider a batch of tyres made in an France, some of those tyres may be destined for lots of countries including the US, the tyres will have the DOT data on them even if that info is not required in the UK.
On the exemplar tyre of the OP, if it doesn't comply with regard to speed, load rating etc then it would be difficult to show that it can operate as one might expect - so the offence would suit the Reg 27(1) (a)the tyre is unsuitable having regard to the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put or to the types of tyres fitted to its other wheel

With no sign of sips etc the ability to disperse and deal with water may be quite slim.

The easiest option if the OP is determined to use thm is to get a suitable confirmation from the tyre, I mean tire manufacturer to say that these tyres comply with all UK/EC regulations. If they are that good, then why not.

#10 RBM

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:02 PM

RBM - personal export vehicles as you describe are required to have the lights etc updated to suit this country, if they are not, then they will fail to comply which would amount to an offence.

DOT only has relevance in the US as it referes to the Department of Transportation and is a US requirement on a tyre to show specific details which means the manufacturer has complied with various manufacturing features etc to comply with US regs. Consider a batch of tyres made in an France, some of those tyres may be destined for lots of countries including the US, the tyres will have the DOT data on them even if that info is not required in the UK.
On the exemplar tyre of the OP, if it doesn't comply with regard to speed, load rating etc then it would be difficult to show that it can operate as one might expect - so the offence would suit the Reg 27(1) (a)the tyre is unsuitable having regard to the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put or to the types of tyres fitted to its other wheel

With no sign of sips etc the ability to disperse and deal with water may be quite slim.

The easiest option if the OP is determined to use thm is to get a suitable confirmation from the tyre, I mean tire manufacturer to say that these tyres comply with all UK/EC regulations. If they are that good, then why not.

up dated? are you saying the americans have out of date lights ? no they need to change the right bias on the head lights to a left bias, they dont need to change ever lens to one with a c/e mark as h have an equivalent standard ts only where the standards substantially differ where you might have problems

the same with the tyre its the easiest thing in the world to show the tyres are constructed to the same or higher standard, by getting hold of the US stadard and load/spead rating. and any ways its for the prosecution to prove they arnt suitable isnt it ?

Edited by RBM, 09 October 2012 - 08:07 PM.


#11 Bart

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

Regarding headlights, when I was posted to Germany, part of the TUV test(MOT) required me to change my headlight units completely to allow me to drive on the right. It wasn't allowed just to put a temporary sticker on the lights to alter the beam. Same when I returned to the UK, I had to change them back to UK spec.

#12 Bill Bingley

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

The tyres are easily up to the job as far as load/speed rating etc. The only issue is the tread design.

In the wet particualy standing water these tyres won't be good at all. The car will be a fair weather only car anyway & won't do more than a couple of thousand road miles a year. But the tyres will come into there own when I'm racing it (off public highways) & I'd rather not have to buy another set of tyres which won't be as good for hardly any use!

Bill

I'll try the uk importers that's a good shout thanks!

#13 RBM

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

Regarding headlights, when I was posted to Germany, part of the TUV test(MOT) required me to change my headlight units completely to allow me to drive on the right. It wasn't allowed just to put a temporary sticker on the lights to alter the beam. Same when I returned to the UK, I had to change them back to UK spec.

indeed, but imports from say japan already have lights that have a left bias and so dont need changing for ce stamped ones

#14 RBM

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

indeed, but imports from say japan already have lights that have a left bias and so dont need changing for ce stamped ones

back on topic, their tyres don't need changing for eu ones either

#15 blueb

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

The tyres are easily up to the job as far as load/speed rating etc. The only issue is the tread design.

In the wet particualy standing water these tyres won't be good at all. The car will be a fair weather only car anyway & won't do more than a couple of thousand road miles a year. But the tyres will come into there own when I'm racing it (off public highways) & I'd rather not have to buy another set of tyres which won't be as good for hardly any use!

Bill

I'll try the uk importers that's a good shout thanks!

No one is saying the tyres are not up to the job, what is being said is that they may not comply with the local regs - for things like sidewall information etc. You are quite right about their potential for poor road performance in the wet - its all well and good saying you will only use them for high days and sunny days, but what will you do when there is a shower whilst travelling home? Stop or become a mobile accident waiting to happen?

#16 Bill Bingley

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

The sidewall has all the relevant info as far as speed & weight loadings as do other dot marked tyres I've seen in the past.

If it lashed it down I'd stop yes that said I've raced cars on true slicks in the damp/wet & it takes a supprising amount of water to make a car undrivable particualy at road speeds. For long journeys (to race the car) it will be on my trailer anyway.

#17 blueb

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:39 AM

The sidewall has all the relevant info as far as speed & weight loadings as do other dot marked tyres I've seen in the past.
If it lashed it down I'd stop yes that said I've raced cars on true slicks in the damp/wet & it takes a supprising amount of water to make a car undrivable particualy at road speeds. For long journeys (to race the car) it will be on my trailer anyway.

Get away from the iddea of DOT marked tyres, of course they will be similar to other DOT marked as they are for the american market - think about the marking on tyres that have the ec numbers/ markings as the comparison that is the mark you would be gauged against. Personally I think it would be madness to use a tyre that you already have decided is not suitable for damp/wet roads - the public highway has a very different makeup to a race track, so omparing slicks on a track to slicks ona highway are a dangerous one to make.

#18 jamieMET

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:53 AM

What form of racing are you planning, motorsport or drag for example?

I see you mentioned the Toyo R888, have you looked into the Yokohama AD08s or Federal RSR alternatives?

#19 Bill Bingley

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

Cars drag racing next year so tyre choice is free (I have proper drag slicks for that) I'm looking for some tyres that are the same diameter as my slicks for road/trackday use so I don't have to reprogram my traction control & adjust the brake bias to suit.

These tyres come in a 275/35/15 which will suit my cars setup much better than the sizes offered in other tyres or having to run a 17" wheel like a few guys I know have to get some meaty tyres.

My other option is resetting the suspension. Between track/road & drag use the using a Khumo 235/45/13 for road use.



#20 jamieMET

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:15 PM

Ive never seen that tyre size, looks like it's going to be abit more dificult for you. What car is it, got a pic?




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