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The Police and Weapons


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#1 marralass

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

As police you are issued certain items that would be a weapon if anyone else was to carry them. How does this work legally? Is there a general dispensation that allows you to carry items that might otherwise come under the category of offensive weapons or are you only allowed to carry weapons that you have been issued?

 

Here is the reason I ask. On another post someone asked about the possibility of having a different type of asp from the one issued, on the same post someone else mentions and attachment you can get for a torch to turn it into a weapon (unclear exactly what this is but there are a variety of things on the market).

 

So if someone were to carry something they weren't issued with, although not significantly different from items they are issued with (ie, I'm not talking about a big knife or a gun), would they be committing an offence?



#2 morek54

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

Possession of an offensive weapon is an offence, without lawful authority.  The Police have lawful authority.  Simple as.



#3 SimonT

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:10 PM

Most likely if you have been issued a baton and you carry a second one, or one with a big metal spike on it then you could very well be done for an offence or misconduct.

There have been officers in trouble for taking their captor spray home. An off duty officer carrying a baton would be committing an offence, unless some sort of strange circumstances existed,. 

 

But, if you have your issued kit on duty then you have lawful authority. 



#4 marralass

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

Possession of an offensive weapon is an offence, without lawful authority.  The Police have lawful authority.  Simple as.

My point was, lawful authority to carry what?


Presumably, as Simon says if you carried something with a big spike on you'd be in trouble.

 

Looking at a more likely scenario, there's a torch called a Surefire Defender, it has two defensive parts to its design. One is a super bright light that comes on for a few seconds at the press of a button (totally legal) and the other is a tough and crenellated bezel for hitting with (Offensive Weapon in civilian hands). If an officer were to carry something like this, would they be committing an offence (presuming that its not issued kit)?

 

I'm not debating the right of the police to carry stuff they're issued with, I'm just wondering if someone could land themselves in big trouble for carrying something they're not issued with, even if its effect is not significantly different than the issued kit.



#5 morek54

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

My point was, lawful authority to carry what?


Presumably, as Simon says if you carried something with a big spike on you'd be in trouble.

 

Looking at a more likely scenario, there's a torch called a Surefire Defender, it has two defensive parts to its design. One is a super bright light that comes on for a few seconds at the press of a button (totally legal) and the other is a tough and crenellated bezel for hitting with (Offensive Weapon in civilian hands). If an officer were to carry something like this, would they be committing an offence (presuming that its not issued kit)?

 

I'm not debating the right of the police to carry stuff they're issued with, I'm just wondering if someone could land themselves in big trouble for carrying something they're not issued with, even if its effect is not significantly different than the issued kit.

I think you've answered your own question - a Police Officer does not have carte blanch to carry any weapon of his/her choice, even if both are very similar items.  Lawful authority would only extend to equipment issued and approved by the force in question. 



#6 madmandare

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:32 AM

Hello Marralass,

Agreed with moreK54, a police officer would be severly repremanded for carrying any additional offensive/restricted items. But an officer would be able to change things that are not offensive/restricted, such as which torch they use or which handcuff key they use etc, as many have done already.

From my thread from yesterday, the Torch that was mentioned by Gripper was just a small LED attachment that screws onto the end of the police issue baton. I know that this torch plus various other end pieces, such as glass breakers and fingers grips are also allowed, however none of them fundamentally change the baton. But this would be a very different story if a police officer was to attach a large metal spike to the end of the baton etc.

Regards


madmandare



#7 turned-around

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:44 AM

I suppose that you may well be pulled up by PSD for mis-conduct, but i think it would really come down to it in court?

 

"Constable, what did you strike my client with? is that standard issue? why did you have it on your person and how can you justify using it on my client?"

 

There was a colleague of mine who queried buying a new end cap for his baton that was designed for breaking windows, the OST instructor said that if it is not standard issue then we can not use it and the defence would use it against us.

 

For instance, if a custody got injured by the end cap after having been struck by an end cap strike.


Edited by turned-around, 11 February 2013 - 08:45 AM.


#8 countybounty

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Hi Marralss

 

To quote what I was told in training we are only allowed to carry what we have been issued with. You cannot buy or change any of the weapons you are issued with. We are issued with a 26inch ASP as standard, however you can be issued with the smaller one (21inch) if you want. Modifying your ASP is a big no no as well, as you could could be liable for any injury this could cause. The only kit I have added or changed is my handcuff holder which I swapped for a better one and I also bought a key holder. Both of which are not really weapons, I hope this helps.



#9 Ed67812

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:47 AM

All forces have a policy that officers cannot modify any PPE (handcuffs, batons, stab vests or CS / Parva spray).

 

You can carry whatever other kit you like on patrol subject to the same legislation as any member of the public (offensive weapons / bladed articles legislation etc).



#10 Narpo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

Possession of an offensive weapon is an offence, without lawful authority.  The Police have lawful authority.  Simple as.

Only when carrying those items that you have been issued with and NOT your own version of it.

You would not have automatic authority to carry a lock knife, or other items just because you are on duty.


Edited by Narpo, 20 February 2013 - 01:21 PM.


#11 morek54

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

Only when carrying those items that you have been issued with and NOT your own version of it.

You would not have automatic authority to carry a lock knife, or other items just because you are on duty.

Thanks for that particular lesson - have you read my other post (Post #5)? :blink:


Edited by morek54, 20 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#12 stewie_griffin

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:18 AM

Do you not have 'drug dealer knives'? I thought all police officers had 'drug dealer knives'.

 

When you search a vehicle and find a knife it's usually 'found property' because nobody admits to owning it. Hey ho!



#13 Ed67812

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

 

Do you not have 'drug dealer knives'? I thought all police officers had 'drug dealer knives'.

 

When you search a vehicle and find a knife it's usually 'found property' because nobody admits to owning it. Hey ho!

 

What the hell is a drug dealer knife? 

 

Search a vehicle, find a knife in vehicle, probably arrest everybody in said vehicle if nobody wants to admit owning it!



#14 Narpo

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for that particular lesson - have you read my other post (Post #5)? :blink:

Just  helping you out :clapping:



#15 stewie_griffin

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:42 PM

 

 

What the hell is a drug dealer knife? 

 

Search a vehicle, find a knife in vehicle, probably arrest everybody in said vehicle if nobody wants to admit owning it!

I don't mean every knife. But if you find say, a nice Spyderco, then you're going to hang on to it aren't you?

 

Oh come on! Don't tell me that you're the only police officer in the western world paying for a knife.



#16 gripper

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

There are so many things wrong with this!.:)

#17 GeorgeH

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:42 AM

I think what Stewie is referring to is a throw-away. There are criminals that throw-away or fail to claim ownership of a weapon. Drug dealers have the money to buy good stuff. Sometimes it is easier to keep the knife than go through the hassle of doing all of the paperwork for its disposal.

 

I don't think he is suggesting that you take a knife from a suspect and then not arrest the suspect but keep the knife. Some of my area local police stations have a box filled with throw-away stuff available for officer's use. In fact an area SWAT team took a Remington 1100 shotgun away from someone and instead of destroying it, they cut down the barrel to 14 inches and the weapon is used by the team with breaching rounds.






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