[kenworthy]

http://driversalliance.blogspot.com/2010/0...ealth-with.html
With the election looming the Government is rolling out its ‘Controlled Motorways’ agenda as rapidly as possible. The visible signs of this are the miles and miles of road works while overhead gantries are erected which will eventually regulate the speed we can travel when traffic builds up. The Government claims that slower speeds will smooth out traffic flows and improve journey times. The Gantries will display the current speed limit on matrix boards and will also use speed cameras to enforce the temporary limits.



They`re was a time we were told no cameras on Motorways, but that was a false promise, we have regular cameras on most motorways now, and these new ones bring spread out across Britain. I also find it hard to disagree with the above article. cameras for money.

[Kev627]

kenworthy, on Feb 22 2010, 09:01 AM, said:

http://driversalliance.blogspot.com/2010/0...ealth-with.html
With the election looming the Government is rolling out its ‘Controlled Motorways’ agenda as rapidly as possible. The visible signs of this are the miles and miles of road works while overhead gantries are erected which will eventually regulate the speed we can travel when traffic builds up. The Government claims that slower speeds will smooth out traffic flows and improve journey times. The Gantries will display the current speed limit on matrix boards and will also use speed cameras to enforce the temporary limits.



They`re was a time we were told no cameras on Motorways, but that was a false promise, we have regular cameras on most motorways now, and these new ones bring spread out across Britain. I also find it hard to disagree with the above article. cameras for money.

I think this is an excellent idea, anything that stops drivers treating motorways as drag strips is an idea that should get everyones full support!

[The Highway Man]

Anything that slows down budding Jenson Buttons whilst i'm retrieving debris from the live carriageway is ok in my book. :thumbsup:

[kenworthy]

Kev627, on Mar 1 2010, 09:50 PM, said:

I think this is an excellent idea, anything that stops drivers treating motorways as drag strips is an idea that should get everyones full support!

In theory you are correct, unfortunately not in practice. Leaving excessive speed to be policed by the HA is wrong. On another part of this forum, the term "front line Policing" has been looked into. Catching speeders on the Motorway in my opinion is a [part of Front line policing. So why do cameras not work, i give you a prime example. The Birmingham box this evening northbound , the M6 bends sharply into the Box so one would hope to get a warning about the Motorway slowing down, before the bend. Well this evening this did not happen, first sign up 40 in outside two lanes, inside lane, the one i was on, 20 with a RED RING around it. If anyone thinks i am going to ram my foot on the brakes they can forget it, but by law that is exactly what the Matrix sign and the law demands. So that i did not brake the law, i changed lane. UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE i said to myself. It so happened half a mile up the road two lanes vanished, and we were left with one lane. In short they`re is no way the HA should be allowed to manage speed in anyway shape or form, this is a Police job.
The Matrix signs should be there to warn people about upcoming dangers, not enforceable speed restrictions as they can never get it right.
Another example of inept Matrix signage. M602 this evening CLOSED, not a word said anywhere, it takes a dumb Coach driver to drive right into it before realizing they`re are workmen everywhere wondering what the hell i was doing. To make certain i did not get this wrong, i may have missed a warning, i phoned the HA, they confirmed that they`re had been no warning and will look into it.

The Birmingham box is there to help ease traffic, but once again it will never work properly. An example. Keele service station Northbound roadworks 50 MPH, enforced by average speed cameras. The Hardshoulder is out, the three lanes narrowed. a car broken down in Lane 1I am in lane two 50 yards from this vehicle attempting to overtake a truck, i see a shadow in Lane 1 i slam on brakes flash headlights almost ordering the truck into Lane 2, he missed the car, but not by much, he had not seen this vehicle, and quite frankly one cannot blame him either (Too dark). The trucker was well grateful, gave me the thumbs up as i passed further along the road. Now, the HA do have cameras in that vicinity, but if the operator blinks, he will miss problems out on the roads. If someone does brake down in front of another vehicle on the Hardshoulder, your chances of survival are greatly reduced.

[SafeSpeed2]

We are told that the use of cameras on the Motorway system is now to reduce 'carbon' no longer about 'safety' or traffic control.
This can sound like if one reason isn't being bought by the public, then use another, a trial and error policy. [Whether you believe the carbon story is another issue of course!]

However since Motorways are our safest roads, why put on a 'sticking plaster' ?

Camera's have many negative side effects and make the roads 6% worse (PIA at roadworks) whereas Traffic Police (as report in TRL595) have positive benefits (27%) and make the roads safer, so why use a less safe method in the first place.

Then when you look at behaviours during the average camera areas and the effect it has on drivers, they are not about road safety whatsoever.

We can look at this as individual cases, or overall policy.

Prior posts mention individual cases of near misses, bad driving, and bad effects at attempts to control traffic, but no camera or motorists control, better than trafpol and drivers/riders paying attention (etc). Just because education and improving ability, knowledge & skill is or can be hard does not mean that it should not be done.
Improving driver and riders abilities gave us the safest roads, why do we think for one minute a camera's presence can improve on this.

[kenworthy]

SafeSpeed2, on Mar 3 2010, 03:48 AM, said:

We are told that the use of cameras on the Motorway system is now to reduce 'carbon' no longer about 'safety' or traffic control.

Which can be shown here http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?...mp;#entry431986

[kenworthy]

kenworthy, on Mar 2 2010, 01:28 AM, said:

In theory you are correct, unfortunately not in practice. Leaving excessive speed to be policed by the HA is wrong. On another part of this forum, the term "front line Policing" has been looked into. Catching speeders on the Motorway in my opinion is a [part of Front line policing. So why do cameras not work, i give you a prime example. The Birmingham box this evening northbound , the M6 bends sharply into the Box so one would hope to get a warning about the Motorway slowing down, before the bend. Well this evening this did not happen, first sign up 40 in outside two lanes, inside lane, the one i was on, 20 with a RED RING around it. If anyone thinks i am going to ram my foot on the brakes they can forget it, but by law that is exactly what the Matrix sign and the law demands. So that i did not brake the law, i changed lane. UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE i said to myself. It so happened half a mile up the road two lanes vanished, and we were left with one lane. In short they`re is no way the HA should be allowed to manage speed in anyway shape or form, this is a Police job.
The Matrix signs should be there to warn people about upcoming dangers, not enforceable speed restrictions as they can never get it right.
Another example of inept Matrix signage. M602 this evening CLOSED, not a word said anywhere, it takes a dumb Coach driver to drive right into it before realizing they`re are workmen everywhere wondering what the hell i was doing. To make certain i did not get this wrong, i may have missed a warning, i phoned the HA, they confirmed that they`re had been no warning and will look into it.

The Birmingham box is there to help ease traffic, but once again it will never work properly. An example. Keele service station Northbound roadworks 50 MPH, enforced by average speed cameras. The Hardshoulder is out, the three lanes narrowed. a car broken down in Lane 1I am in lane two 50 yards from this vehicle attempting to overtake a truck, i see a shadow in Lane 1 i slam on brakes flash headlights almost ordering the truck into Lane 2, he missed the car, but not by much, he had not seen this vehicle, and quite frankly one cannot blame him either (Too dark). The trucker was well grateful, gave me the thumbs up as i passed further along the road. Now, the HA do have cameras in that vicinity, but if the operator blinks, he will miss problems out on the roads. If someone does brake down in front of another vehicle on the Hardshoulder, your chances of survival are greatly reduced.

The proof in what i say is sadly shown in this news article.
Man dies while changing tyre on M6 in Cheshire.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ter/8546747.stm
A 66-year-old man has died after being struck by a passing vehicle while he was changing a wheel on the hard shoulder of a Cheshire motorway. RIP

This post has been edited by kenworthy: 04 March 2010 - 11:48 AM

[SafeSpeed2]

Yep tragic and if a trafpol had been passing and provide additional cover perhaps he'd have been that much more obvious ....
unless ..
the driver accidentally steered to where he was looking and thinking. :(

When I had to change a tyre at least it was on the embankment side, but I did all I could to minimise the time the car was jacked up and changing the tyre - took 15 mins than 10min as the boot was pretty full of paperwork!
The lorries passing were of concern but as it was night I felt safer, than in the daylight because I was less visible and so of less interest. the lorries also had more room as it was quiet (about 3am) and the motorway fairly empty. Funnily enough when I stopped at the next services to check everything over, I met a trafpol crew and had he was impressed ! :)

[The Highway Man]

SafeSpeed2, on Mar 4 2010, 03:48 AM, said:

Yep tragic and if a trafpol had been passing and provide additional cover perhaps he'd have been that much more obvious ....
unless ..
the driver accidentally steered to where he was looking and thinking. :(

When I had to change a tyre at least it was on the embankment side, but I did all I could to minimise the time the car was jacked up and changing the tyre - took 15 mins than 10min as the boot was pretty full of paperwork!
The lorries passing were of concern but as it was night I felt safer, than in the daylight because I was less visible and so of less interest. the lorries also had more room as it was quiet (about 3am) and the motorway fairly empty. Funnily enough when I stopped at the next services to check everything over, I met a trafpol crew and had he was impressed ! :)

And not forgetting us HATOs who patrol the motorway 24/7. :thumbsup:

[Traffic Rat]

Quick update on the M6 Incident, please head the highlighted line

A 66-YEAR-OLD man has been found dead on the hard shoulder of the M6.

The man from Skelmersdale, was about half a mile short of junction 20, Lymm, on the northbound carriageway at around 3.40am on Wednesday, yesterday.

Police are trying to establish whether he died of natural causes or was involved in a collision with a passing vehicle and died at the scene.

He had been changing the wheel on his silver Mercedes people carrier.

The motorway has now been fully reopened.

Anyone with information who may have seen the driver after or before the accident should call Cheshire Police on 0845 458 0000.

[kenworthy]

And continuing the theme of this topic.
New speed limit cameras to be rolled out on M20 in Kent.
A £12m scheme to install variable speed cameras on the M20 in Kent is being rolled out.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/8555030.stm

They`re is an easier way, if the HA places a camera on all entry slip roads onto Motorways, and all slip road off motorways, they can catch anyone who say, travels from London to Manchester in a shorter space of time then can be done by doing 70 MPH. Does that work, i am sure i see a hiccup somewhere in there.

[Kev627]

kenworthy, on Mar 8 2010, 04:19 PM, said:

And continuing the theme of this topic.
New speed limit cameras to be rolled out on M20 in Kent.
A £12m scheme to install variable speed cameras on the M20 in Kent is being rolled out.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/8555030.stm

They`re is an easier way, if the HA places a camera on all entry slip roads onto Motorways, and all slip road off motorways, they can catch anyone who say, travels from London to Manchester in a shorter space of time then can be done by doing 70 MPH. Does that work, i am sure i see a hiccup somewhere in there.

I think a scheme similar to this is used in several European countries and appears to work so I can't see why it wouldn't work over here.


Oh sorry, yes I can. It would infringe the human rights of the drivers who feel they should be allowed to drive at speeds in excess of the legal limit just because they can! :angry:

[aberant]

Just a thought regarding speed limits on matrix signs - I was on the M6 about a year ago just as it passed through Cumbria, there had been heavy snow at one point but the road was reasonably clear. The matrix signs said 30, so thinking I was doing the right thing, I stuck to thirty in the left hand lane. By the time the tenth lorry had come flying up behind me, flashing and sounding his horn before overtaking, I decided I was going to cause an accident and sped up.

Do you break the speed limit, or cause an accident? Would that argument stand up if a camera was to flash you?

[nigeltm]

aberant, on Mar 8 2010, 05:55 PM, said:

Just a thought regarding speed limits on matrix signs - I was on the M6 about a year ago just as it passed through Cumbria, there had been heavy snow at one point but the road was reasonably clear. The matrix signs said 30, so thinking I was doing the right thing, I stuck to thirty in the left hand lane. By the time the tenth lorry had come flying up behind me, flashing and sounding his horn before overtaking, I decided I was going to cause an accident and sped up.

Do you break the speed limit, or cause an accident? Would that argument stand up if a camera was to flash you?

If the matrix sign was the usual amber (no red ring or flashing lights) then the speed is advisory, not a limit. That said, if you cause an accident when going faster than the advisory (e.g. 60mph in fog) then you could still be done for other motoring offences.

This link (http://www.direct.go...t/dg_070561.pdf) goes to the Highway Code website where a 50mph advisory matrix is used as an example.

The only speeed limits are those with the amber flashing lights replaced with red flashing lights or the newer kind with the proper round speed limit made up by the coloured matrix sign (e.g. m25 variable sections).

[aberant]

I don't think I've seen one with red lights, I'll now be keeping an eye out!

[kenworthy]

The speed camera trap on the M6 that's racing towards record £3m haul in fines

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0hlfcAjdA
For such an innocuous stretch of motorway, it is fast gaining a fearsome reputation.
In little more than five weeks, this three-mile length of road cutting through the scenic borderlands of North-West England has smashed the British record for speed camera victims.



A kind speed camera, one that cares for your safety.
"this is appalling and the speed cameras must be sited wrongly to have clocked so many speeding drivers.' "

It looks like it has been placed in EXACTLY the right area, the area where most speeders go. These roadworks have been advertised on National radio, i am guessing they`re is more then one notification on the roads warning people who sit behind a wheel that roadworks is on going, and that speed cameras average or fixed are in operation. I am not sure why the fuss.

[nigeltm]

aberant, on Mar 8 2010, 10:07 PM, said:

I don't think I've seen one with red lights, I'll now be keeping an eye out!

It's the same matrix sign with red and amber lights. Only it's rare to see the red lights in use.

[The Highway Man]

kenworthy, on Mar 10 2010, 11:30 AM, said:

The speed camera trap on the M6 that's racing towards record £3m haul in fines

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0hlfcAjdA
For such an innocuous stretch of motorway, it is fast gaining a fearsome reputation.
In little more than five weeks, this three-mile length of road cutting through the scenic borderlands of North-West England has smashed the British record for speed camera victims.



A kind speed camera, one that cares for your safety.
"this is appalling and the speed cameras must be sited wrongly to have clocked so many speeding drivers.' "

It looks like it has been placed in EXACTLY the right area, the area where most speeders go. These roadworks have been advertised on National radio, i am guessing they`re is more then one notification on the roads warning people who sit behind a wheel that roadworks is on going, and that speed cameras average or fixed are in operation. I am not sure why the fuss.

This camera is a mile into the road works with 6 50 mph signs and 6 speed camera warning signs as you approach the camera which is painted bright yellow. To get a speeding ticket, the driver will have to race past all the law abiding motorists who are obeying the limit. No-one to blame but themselves!

[The Black Rabbit]

SafeSpeed2, on Mar 4 2010, 02:48 AM, said:

Yep tragic and if a trafpol had been passing and provide additional cover perhaps he'd have been that much more obvious ....
unless ..
the driver accidentally steered to where he was looking and thinking. :(

When I had to change a tyre at least it was on the embankment side, but I did all I could to minimise the time the car was jacked up and changing the tyre - took 15 mins than 10min as the boot was pretty full of paperwork!
The lorries passing were of concern but as it was night I felt safer, than in the daylight because I was less visible and so of less interest. the lorries also had more room as it was quiet (about 3am) and the motorway fairly empty. Funnily enough when I stopped at the next services to check everything over, I met a trafpol crew and had he was impressed ! :)

Traffic Rat, on Mar 4 2010, 09:41 AM, said:

Quick update on the M6 Incident, please head the highlighted line

A 66-YEAR-OLD man has been found dead on the hard shoulder of the M6.

The man from Skelmersdale, was about half a mile short of junction 20, Lymm, on the northbound carriageway at around 3.40am on Wednesday, yesterday.

Police are trying to establish whether he died of natural causes or was involved in a collision with a passing vehicle and died at the scene.

He had been changing the wheel on his silver Mercedes people carrier.

The motorway has now been fully reopened.

Anyone with information who may have seen the driver after or before the accident should call Cheshire Police on 0845 458 0000.

Ahem....

Highway Code Rule 275, bullet point 4.

[Squirrel684]

nigeltm, on Mar 10 2010, 12:45 PM, said:

It's the same matrix sign with red and amber lights. Only it's rare to see the red lights in use.

The red lights on these signs are only used when mandatory red crosses are illuminated on the overhead gantries. It is an offence to proceed underneath a red cross - it is not an offence to exceed the amber speed limit shown.