[breezer1]

Right first off this is a copy of a post from a fellow Impreza owner re his day yesterday. It is second hand and I apolgize if any find the term "rozzer" offensive but I didnt want to change anything etc. Id also like to add the person concerned has quite rightly stated a healthy respect as do I to what the majority of the police force do. My main question is a is this acceptable? b) why is it that owners of subaru's evo's etc (the vast majority of whom are more sensible and careful drivers than a significant proportion of the population due to the cost of thier cars/the time effort spent on them etc etc.) get tarred with the same brush and do seem to be a "target" for some officers out there?

Ive experienced it as has my wife where a squad car will tailgate the car which only makes me or her slow down further. Id stop and question said officer when this has happened but I'll only get more grief if I did that (which by the way providing Im polite shouldnt happen but we all know it will)

I'd love to be able report back to the forum some sensible responses to this as it would give a more balanced view to the thread. Id also like some advice as to whether the honest officers on here think he should complain.


That's right got pulled by the rozzers. Was off work today decorating, dinner time came and was just going round the corner to get some chips when i saw a police car going by the end of my street so i let him pass and off i went. On the way back from the chipy the same police car had turned round (spooky) so off i went, looked in my rear veiw mirror and the rozzers had turned around so i stuck to a nice steady 20 MPH and they came flying down with all lights flashing and sirens going, pulled on to my street where they stopped me.
i wound the window down and said, and this is a classic "is there a problem officer" and the conversation started.

COPPER, yes there is.

ME, what's that.

COPPER, you're taking the p1ss.

ME, sorry

COPPER, I`ve passed you twice and both times you booted it.

ME, was i breaking the speed limit.

COPPER, no you were just taking the p1ss.

ME, so have i broken any laws.

COPPER, no

ME, so i can i go now.

COPPER, yes you can but the next time you see a police car DONT TAKE THE P1SS.

ME, ok have a nice day.

This really made me laugh not only did he pull me over for nothing, he did not check the car over or do a pnc on the car that is registered to my mrs or even ask my name, and the biggy he swore "naughty boy".

what a tosser, dont get me wrong i`ve got a lot of respect for the law but coppers like this just let them selfs down.

[desmata]

Is this accepatble? thats a strange question. Something clearly unnacceptable being questioned for its acceptability.

[Fedster]

Yeah but Mr Breezer i think the key question that will solve this conundrum for you is,as the Officer asked you were you taking the P?

[breezer1]

Whether I feel it is acceptable or not isnt the question it is whether serving police officers believe it is acceptable or not and more importantly their views on why this sort of thing is still very very prevalent. I would add particularly in nottinghamshire which I beleive is due to the j27 issue. Id also add the road isnt an acceptable place to test what your car can and cannot do. The only place for that is on the track which is where I use mine. the rest of the time its my wifes daily driver to and from queens med.

I wanted some responses from decent officers to balance the thread on our forum. Also there may be a few that actually think theres nothing wrong with the above.

[Fedster]

breezer1, on Feb 23 2010, 11:08 AM, said:

Whether I feel it is acceptable or not isnt the question it is whether serving police officers believe it is acceptable or not and more importantly their views on why this sort of thing is still very very prevalent. I would add particularly in nottinghamshire which I beleive is due to the j27 issue. Id also add the road isnt an acceptable place to test what your car can and cannot do. The only place for that is on the track which is where I use mine. the rest of the time its my wifes daily driver to and from queens med.

I wanted some responses from decent officers to balance the thread on our forum. Also there may be a few that actually think theres nothing wrong with the above.

So lets get this staright you have taken the time to open a new account on here, just to post a story about how in yopur opinion you were treated unfairly.

Would it not be best to contact the force directly, or the IPCC if you have a compalint, what to you expect to get from here? A pat on the back, and to be told you are right and the officer in question is really naughty?

[breezer1]

firstly it wasnt me, it was a fellow owner and if the forum on here beleives its unacceptable behaviour thenI would advise him to do excatly that and complain. What I wanted was some feedback from officers on here to balance what could be a one sided thread. I also do want opinions on if/why jap performance cars do seem to be a target for hassle and what we as clubs can do to change that. Yes I logged on here for this thread but thats not really the issue now is it? It is important and the story above just highights the issues many of us face a lot of the time and tbh it wears a bit thin.

Just as an example Im 38 responsible, yes my car is very quick, yes its not exactly subtle but a) its a darn sight safer than most cars and b) ive been taught to drive it properly and c) I use it as its designed to do ONLY on the track. So why do patrol cars find it necessary to drive at an unsafe distance behind it whenever we come across one Im fairly sure to provoke a reaction. The only reaction it provokes is annoyance at poor driving.

We are not chavs's driving at stupid speeds in glorifed sheds but we do seem to be treated the same. In relation to fed's question no he wasnt. look a gt3 or any quick car gets to speed rapidly provided its a) not dangerous to do so and b) is within legal speed limits I fail to see how he couldve been taking the p. The officer concerned obviously had a bee in his bonnet and was itching to get his book out but because no law had been broken he acted quite frankly inappropriatly. My question is more why do so many and not all I hasten to add police officers feel the need to target our type of car?

[flabber-my-gast]

Whats not acceptible is the way he was spoke to, if thats how the conversation went. Look at the bigger picture. Subarus are a target car for car thiefs, so whenever i see one im automatically on guard. I would imagine he already knew everything he wanted to know about the car before he spoke with driver, either over radio or by in car terminal. He would know it wasnt reported stolen, he would know who was insured to drive. He was probably speaking to the driver to get a feel for him, just in case the owner hadnt reported it stolen yet. By his own admittance he initially saw police and let it pass. That in itself puts my suspicion up. Why let it pass before you pull out. Does have something to hide?? Its like cars then turn off as soon as you get behind them. The Police have to be suspicious or no one would get caught. Its not just subarus, ask audi drivers aswell!!

The polive have the authority to stop any vehicle to ascertain the driver details!!

This post has been edited by flabber-my-gast: 23 February 2010 - 11:57 AM

[Søren]

breezer1, on Feb 23 2010, 10:28 AM, said:

Right first off this is a copy of a post from a fellow Impreza owner re his day yesterday.

Link to the forum thread please.

[Ryk]

your friend was driving a motor vehicle on the road, so he can be pulled. End of story. As for the attitude of the cop, its the real world, we do swear, id bet your friend had said something to upset the cop. And lets be honest here, the majority of scooby or evo drivers drive them anti socially, the exhaust system for a start is rarely legal.
Its the same as bikers, the vast majority of them dont stick to the speed limit, im a biker, and im just as guilty.

[breezer1]

ryk at least your honest but actually as for the anti-social bit you'll find its the minority and its exactly that comment that is what we as a club have to put up with. Yes the exhausts are loud and not all conform to emissions but and there is a but they are better maintained, in the main better driven than the majority of the chav mobiles out there and the badly maintained sheds that seem to populate our roads, then theres reps that do idiotic stuff on the motorway and all the other stuff out there, not to mention uninsured idiots,drink drive idiots as well. Put that into perspective are we really the bad guys ? As we seem to be treated with a distinct lack of common respect and decency just because of the car we drive. I would point out my car is a sprint car used in competition but due to lack of funds it also has to for the moment also remain my wifes daily driver. My wife states I drive like an old man when I do drive it on the roads. Should I be treated like a criminal just because my car is fast and covered in graphics? All I ask is we be treated the same as if we were driving a mondeo or a any other car. thats not a lot to ask. In return the police may get more cooperation from the forums out there and maybe some of our more enthusiastic members may listen when we say the road isnt the right place etc instead the police are mistrusted, disliked etc, Ive had good and bad treatment from the police and am a professional and as such am law abiding etc but even Im not enthused by you boys and its because of attitude nothing else. This is just my opinion and just feel its a shame that incidents like the above dont do relations between the owners clubs/owners and the police.

ryk also as for the language if I swore when being pulled over theres a good likelhood Id get arrested so why is it acceptable the other way round.Double standards spring to mind and the police "baiting" a individual which is unnacceptable in my book. The police are meant to be bastions of society and lead by example. Obviously since I was a child when respect went both ways standards have slipped.

This post has been edited by breezer1: 23 February 2010 - 01:02 PM

[breezer1]

Can you clarify something ryk I thought an officer can only stop a vehicle with reason not just on a whim? Am I right in saying this is fundamentaly incorrect and the police can stop you whenever they feel like it?

[sykes]

lets for one momment beleive that it was not you involved
You therefore lift a post off a forum regarding a incident you where were not present but becuase it is posted by 'one of your own' you take the version as gospel.

If this did indeed happen as you satate then its obvious to anyone its unacceptable

however i find this coinstant stream of people especially motorists who whinge and whine about how police apparently treat them, the are nearly all unsuppported allegations anf folow a familiar trend.

if you want to own a car and modify it either looks or performance then crack on no problem but stop thinking the public highways are the place to show off, if you commit offences whatever they are grow up and accept.

Regard to the problems at j27 in Notts it took far to long for action to be taken by police but all it has done is moved the problem on, if clubs enthusiasts cant control activities then expect police invovlement.


so beofore you makine assumption regarding actions or not of officers get the supporting evidence and then approach local stration or IPCC dont come to places like this start slagging officers off in sweeping statement with the presumption everyone else is right but police are wrong.

I have spent last 20 years doing track day and similar in cars and on bikes and overall find there are some very skilled and fast people on two or four wheels they rarely drive the same way on the roads, what i do find is those idiot who modify cars and bikes then race roud resisential area or carparks lack the skills to drive on track at any speed, but thinks they are the dog gonads of driving, they are the first to complain when stopped.

An as you said if anyone is offended by the word Rozza then same applies if you dont like the comments go back to your other forum and speak to blinkered like minded people

[SAMMYW]

Correct, we can ask any car to stop and request driving documents. It is an offence to fail to produce those documents on request, but we are sensible and don't summons straight away, rther give the driver a breather and a 7 day producer....

Breezer, you may have come across some defensive posts, but did you really expect any of us to justify the actions of an individual officer who is being described 3rd hand??? Its a daft 1st post IMO.

Its like me asking you to say "is it right that a Subaru driver revved their engine and beeped twice, at 3am two weeks last friday in a built up area???"

We are human, so if it offends you, it would probably offend us... (just for the record, I don't swear in front of MOP's otherwise I'd be a right hypocrite S5'ing people for F'ing and blinding in the street and treat everyone I meet as I'd wish to be treated myself, or how I'd want my dad/brother/mum/sister treated)

[Blue Dragon]

Right here's my 2 pennies worth:

First off I don't think its fair to pass a judgement for either person as we only have 1 side of the story so far and considering its second hand information, as stated by the OP, it may not have the full details or parts may not be quite true to the event.

One thing I would say is, as mentioned previously, high performance vehicles are vulnerable to being victims of crime such as theft. I am sure you are aware these vehicles are stolen to order for the commission of criminal activity. As the OP mentions a lot of money is spent on these cars so it would be natural to assume these vehicles can be better maintained. So these make them more appealing to the criminal for more serious offences. My interpretation from the OP is that these vehicles are stopped as we think they are criminals. Well actually a lot of the time a lot of our guys stop people to check to see the vehicles have not been stolen. How would have been if the owner of the car found out police didn't stop the vehicle when they had the chance? People are so quick to put blame on when in fact there could well be a legitimate reason for a stop. I am sure if it was stolen then this thread may be along the lines of why did police not stop the vehicle. It was high value so they should have stopped it and checked. Damn if you do and damn if you don't.

With regards to the language used, I find it hard to believe an officer would just come out with that first line. Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye. I am sure your initial intentions were good and you may vouch for this person you have never met but spoken to on a forum, but I think it only fair we have both sides of the story. Chances are it won't quite be the picture painted by the OP.

Just remember if you are stopped in your vehicle it may not be because you think you are being targeted unfairly by the police. It may actually be the fact that we want to ensure the vehicle is not stolen so if it is, we can actually get it back to you in one piece, unscathed!

[breezer1]

Sammy thanks for clarifying that for me. Sykes please dont take it that im a) slagging coppers in general off. Far from it, as it happens yes it is a third hand account but its from one of sensible members and I agree totally with the road is NOT the place to show off or anything else and quite rightly yo get whats coming in that instance and exactly the same with respect to the antics at j27. The small minority give the rest of us a bad name. I am however sick to death of being tarred with the same brush. My car does have graphics on it and some of them are for show and some are for my sprints but they are my personal choice. Likewise the guys that have show cars shouldnt be treated like well I'll not say. I did welcome the judgement re j27 as I live relatively near there its a pain for normal law abiding owners who may happen to be travelling together. It was an ill advised way of dealing with a very real problem. I do sympathise it aint always easy distinguishing the good ones from the bad but as one of our members stated (he's a copper) one look at the driver is normally all it takes to get a pretty good idea of whether their one or the other.

Sykes I was actually trying unsuccessfully it seems to see whether the shutters would come up or actually whether the majority on here would actually be a little disappointed (on the basis that as you say it happened exactly as stated) in the officers concerned. Look the reality is if and I do say if said officer behaved in the manner stated he needs to be steered in the right direction and if and again I say if he unwilling to change should he really be a copper? If hes happy to bypass respect and act like a bully (abusing his position) what other corners might he actually be willing to cut? If doesnt leave the people who pay their taxes and trust the police and system with much faith in it.

[Ash76]

breezer1, on Feb 23 2010, 01:09 PM, said:

Can you clarify something ryk I thought an officer can only stop a vehicle with reason not just on a whim? Am I right in saying this is fundamentaly incorrect and the police can stop you whenever they feel like it?

In law if your driving a vehicle on the road then the police can stop you, pretty straight forward. cant see any problems with that, as the police dont go around stopping every car they see, I for 1 have been driving over 11 years and have never been stopped by the police, and I used to have to drive around late at night with an old job.

[breezer1]

blue fair point very well made. Personally if ours gets pinched I'd not want it back but thats just me and on a serious note I do appreciate they make good getaway vehicles etc and yes 2 sides etc. thanks for the comments guys.

[DTM]

breezer1, on Feb 23 2010, 01:09 PM, said:

Can you clarify something ryk I thought an officer can only stop a vehicle with reason not just on a whim? Am I right in saying this is fundamentaly incorrect and the police can stop you whenever they feel like it?

Breezer1,

As mentioned, we do not need a reason to stop a vehicle. We have powers to stop any vehicle, where ever we want (Providing we feel it is safe to do so, hence why you maybe follwed for a short distance) and when we want. There is no rules to state we have to have reasonable grounds. We are therefore able to stop check any car and driver to ensure all details are correct and legal.

In terms of your 'Friend' or fellow 'forum member' it is difficult to answer honestly, mainly due to the fact it is from a 3rd party. People often like to add their own little bits of info into a story to make it sound good and to provide entertainment to those reading or listening to it. Therefore I would believe that there is more to it, whether he was speeding up but remaining to the speed limit, or pulling a face, of what kind.....who knows. I cant see any officer stopping any car regardless of the make and say 'Your taking the piss' for no reason.
I stop cars left right and center, its what I do, I treat all the same regardless if its falling apart or brand new. Unfortunately cars like yours or your fellow friends come to the attention of the police quite often, due to drive offs, burg's or driving in anti social manner. As stated before, these type of cars often have issues in which they are not legal i.e exhausts, tinted windows or added accessories that are not listed on insurance which then invalidates their insurance.
It is common sense to all that its not acceptable for any memeber of the public or goverment run organisation to speak like that, you don't need to sign up to this website to have it clarified. However, if there are circumstances surrounding this, which I am sure there are and you probably don't know or likely haven't been told the full in's and outs then its hard to answer. We all have to adapt our communication levels to suit those that are listening, is your friend likely to understand 'You were driving like a careless driver as you pulled off, what if someone had stepped out as you pulled of in such a hurry' for arguements sake, or depending on how your 'friend' spoke initially and his attitude, would he understand more 'Your driving is taking the piss'
Unfortunately that is something that only the officer at the time and you 'friend' can establish, we unfortuantely cant.

What I would ask is, why does your 'friend' like to pull off in a hurry when the speed limit is a max not a target? Is this to satisfy his own insecurities or to be an idiot? Things aren't as black and white as it made out to be and when listening to others, you will find that bits are left out of the story and other bits added to make themselves feel better for potentianlly or dileberatly 'taking the piss'

Hope this helps

[breezer1]

dtm I do tend to agree with what your saying I would add however that for example my car even if I dont flatten it will get to 20 mph in about 1.5 seconds if that. Now if a police car was to see the car launch like that they might construe I was doing it deliberatly to wind him up. In reality the car is just that quick and as long as its safe I also wasnt aware that the majority of subaru,evo,skyline etc owners couldnt afford to pay for petrol. I would agree there is the odd idiot who thinks not declaring their mods is clever. It most certainly isnt. Mine (all three a4 pages of them) are.
As for the anti social manner once again your lumping us in with the chav brigade which tbh is a little disheartening. The only thing that is slightly anti social about a lot of the cars is the exhaust which given the number of young kids these days with noisy exhausts, plus m3's,porshes,ferraris need I go on really is nit picking. Driving like a tw@t however is something I dont like anymore than you. I would say however the majority of people I see driving like that dont own our cars. Ive had smart cars,focus's just about every stupid car out there want to race but rarely have I had one of our own try and goad me into stupidity and Ive been involved with performance cars for over 10 years.

I do wish the police would start to distinguish between us and the chavs as maybe just maybe we wouldnt get quite so much hassle when weve not done anything as like I said it can get just a little wearing.

I know youve a job to do and fair play on that front but were just an easy target, easy to spot easy to blame etc etc. If the police etc actually went and saw a lot of the events we stage, the charity events and charity work that a lot of the clubs do maybe the attitude would change but instead were just a bunch of noisy,irresponsible boy racers that deserve everything we get. I give up I really do as its obvious that that attitude still sticks and looks like it aint going to change any day soon.

by the way a link to the sprint series where I use the car for what it was desigined to do http://scoobysprint.com/

This post has been edited by breezer1: 23 February 2010 - 05:17 PM

[DTM]

breezer1, on Feb 23 2010, 05:14 PM, said:

dtm I do tend to agree with what your saying I would add however that for example my car even if I dont flatten it will get to 20 mph in about 1.5 seconds if that. Now if a police car was to see the car launch like that they might construe I was doing it deliberatly to wind him up. In reality the car is just that quick and as long as its safe I also wasnt aware that the majority of subaru,evo,skyline etc owners couldnt afford to pay for petrol. I would agree there is the odd idiot who thinks not declaring their mods is clever. It most certainly isnt. Mine (all three a4 pages of them) are.
As for the anti social manner once again your lumping us in with the chav brigade which tbh is a little disheartening. The only thing that is slightly anti social about a lot of the cars is the exhaust which given the number of young kids these days with noisy exhausts, plus m3's,porshes,ferraris need I go on really is nit picking. Driving like a tw@t however is something I dont like anymore than you. I would say however the majority of people I see driving like that dont own our cars. Ive had smart cars,focus's just about every stupid car out there want to race but rarely have I had one of our own try and goad me into stupidity and Ive been involved with performance cars for over 10 years.

I do wish the police would start to distinguish between us and the chavs as maybe just maybe we wouldnt get quite so much hassle when weve not done anything as like I said it can get just a little wearing.

I know youve a job to do and fair play on that front but were just an easy target, easy to spot easy to blame etc etc. If the police etc actually went and saw a lot of the events we stage, the charity events and charity work that a lot of the clubs do maybe the attitude would change but instead were just a bunch of noisy,irresponsible boy racers that deserve everything we get. I give up I really do as its obvious that that attitude still sticks and looks like it aint going to change any day soon.

by the way a link to the sprint series where I use the car for what it was desigined to do http://scoobysprint.com/

Breezer,

Noone is targetted specifically, only if we have a report of a specifi vehicle. As stated by Flabber My Gast, other cars are subjected to more stops, sometimes being Audi's. This is because there are a high number of them stolen and used to commit other offences. I don't care what anyone drives providing it is safe and legal. I do not have the idea that all subaru drivers are chav's and appreciate that most are law abiding drivers. However there are some idots that let the side down for all car makes, thats why routine checks are done. Your 'friends' car would not have been the only car stopped that day by that particular officer. I am aware of officers that have been along to the meetings that car fanatics have and have policed it. No officer has any problem with that as long as they are not causing any harm to other members of the public. Unfortunately its like everything in life, there is always bad apples everywhere and as a police service we need to be keeping on top of them. If you are stopped and everything is all in order then there are no issues. I can assure you that all drivers and other vehicle makes go through the same process.

I have often seen subaru driving past, some are known to me, and providing that they are driving correctly and do not give me any suspicioun then they are left alone.
Your issue is with the way your 'friend' was treated, so sticking to that point there is not an awful lot anyone can say as each case is based on its own merits and personal responsibility needs to be taken by the drivers themselves, whether that be not to attract attention, driving a subaru or other high performance cars is not a sole reason to attract attention, it comes down to the driving standards, modified kits, drivers persona and any info at the time in relation to crime and anti social behaviour