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paul232

Why is CS gas and pepper spray illegal in the U.K. but widely available in the rest of Europe?

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I know its the polices last defence against a drunk or aggressive person. but in other country's it is very effective at stopping people being raped or mugged or even murdered.

it is a totally harmless spray that wears off and leaves no damage afterwards. it would help prevent a lot of crime taking place.

and maybe even lead to the attackers been arrested who would otherwise of got away. I cant understand why the U.K is so strict on people trying to defend them Self,s. and why is it classed as a firearm. I swear the U.K must be the laughing stock of Europe.

We are in the top 10 country's in Europe with the highest reported crime rates anyway so these bans and such aren't really helping.

I know that if Cs gas and Pepper spray was made legal criminals would also use it but I would rather be sprayed in the face with that than stabbed or beaten to a pulp.

the law makes it look like it is less of an offence to carry a knife that is going to do serious damage than a harmless spray. possession of a bladed article sounds a lot less of an offence than possession of a section 5 fire arm. that falls into the same category of been caught with a sawn off shot gun.

What has happened to this country ><

Edited by paul232
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I know its the polices last defence against a drunk or aggressive person. but in other country's it is very effective at stopping people being raped or mugged or even murdered.

it is a totally harmless spray that wears off and leaves no damage afterwards. it would help prevent a lot of crime taking place.

and maybe even lead to the attackers been arrested who would otherwise of got away. I cant understand why the U.K is so strict on people trying to defend them Self,s. and why is it classed as a firearm. I swear the U.K must be the laughing stock of Europe.

We are in the top 10 country's in Europe with the highest reported crime rates anyway so these bans and such aren't really helping.

I know that if Cs gas and Pepper spray was made legal criminals would also use it but I would rather be sprayed in the face with that than stabbed or beaten to a pulp.

the law makes it look like it is less of an offence to carry a knife that is going to do serious damage than a harmless spray. possession of a bladed article sounds a lot less of an offence than possession of a section 5 fire arm. that falls into the same category of been caught with a sawn off shot gun.

What has happened to this country ><

Don,t all answer at once :)

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Don,t all answer at once :)

OK.

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I know its the polices last defence against a drunk or aggressive person

Well not really. My 'last defence' is lethal force. A baton strike to the head would be my 'last defence' if it came to it.

in other country's it is very effective at stopping people being raped or mugged or even murdered.

Ok but so is a handgun yet we don't advocate legalising those. Also just because other countries do it does not make it right - if every country legalised rape we wouldn't say well every other country does it so....

it is a totally harmless spray that wears off and leaves no damage afterwards. it would help prevent a lot of crime taking place.

It's not harmless. You are incapacitated and it makes it difficult to defend / control yourself. There is a considerably higher risk of wandering into traffic / falling off a building etc. Also the fact you can't defend yourself or run away means you run a high risk of being subject to a nasty beating by whoever has just used it on you.

Besides, the criminals would all carry it - how many officers would be CS'd? How many women would cs'd and raped? How many kids CS'd and have their phones snatched from them?

I cant understand why the U.K is so strict on people trying to defend them Self,s. and why is it classed as a firearm. I swear the U.K must be the laughing stock of Europe.

Yes I'm sure people are laughing at us for not allowing our people to carry knives/firearms :doh:

We are in the top 10 country's in Europe with the highest reported crime rates anyway so these bans and such aren't really helping.

Where is your evidence that allowing people to arm themselves would reduce our crime rate?

I know that if Cs gas and Pepper spray was made legal criminals would also use it but I would rather be sprayed in the face with that than stabbed or beaten to a pulp.

They would CS you then stab you.

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to be fair dell, i kind of agree with some of your points, but i also agree with the OP's.

this country is far too strict, whenever i've been attacked, it's never one person i can fight off, it's 2 or more, 8 is the highest i can remember attacking me, leader got broken jaw in one hit, his gang ran, phew.

but there are times where you will need some form of protection, baton, cs, and as you mentioned Dell, even a gun, i mean high crime areas, is it fair that these criminals can pick knives and guns off the streets, but poor joe public isn't allowed one because it is a threatening weapon, what then, he gets stabbed, dies of his wounds, whereas if he had some CS spray or a baton, he might've been able to fight them off.

i also agree that the UK probably makes some people laugh, just yesterday they were discussing whether we should be able to defend ourselves in our own homes :nono: why are we discussing that in the first bloody place.

and when people want to buy a gun, don't they have to file for a licence, well why not do that with CS spray or batons, saves me walking the street with a baseball bat or something.

if you can't get a baton or CS spray, just get a leather wrist strap and slip a pen in it :thumbsup: go assassins creed on them.

or better yet, avoid conflict altogether :thumbsup: there has never been a moment when my climbing hasn't failed me when it comes to evading gangs, and i've had to do it a few times, fazakerley, walton park, walton lol, hell even city centre i've had to make a quick dash :clapping: i'm gonna have dell looking all over the place for a ninja now :ph34r:

ok, rant over, and i'll give some sound advice, look up self defence books, videos, read up on moves that could help, not flashy flying kicks or monkey punches, but ones that can put your enemy into a new world of pain with a simple hit, i find an eye gouge pretty effective when you've got some greck twice the size of you on top of you lol, learn how to climb and evade, that's helpful, also, learn how to predict when a fight will start to get the advantage, i need to work on that myself lol

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It's illegal because the law has been wrote that way, plain and simple. It says :

Section 5 (1) (b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid gas or other thing. Generally stun guns or electric shock devices, CS gas not usually cattle prods but depends on type;

One of the things this came about from was in the back end of the 80's & early 90's street robbery was massive in places such as Lambeth where I worked and the weapon of choice was a Jif lemon bottle filled with something horrible. (That said lemon juice itself in the eye is going to sting :wacko: :wacko: )

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You talk about wanting to defend yourself against multiple attackers; fair enough...but if CS became widely available they too would be armed with CS wouldn't they? Likewise with batons.

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It's illegal because the law has been wrote that way, plain and simple. It says :

Section 5 (1) (b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid gas or other thing. Generally stun guns or electric shock devices, CS gas not usually cattle prods but depends on type;

One of the things this came about from was in the back end of the 80's & early 90's street robbery was massive in places such as Lambeth where I worked and the weapon of choice was a Jif lemon bottle filled with something horrible. (That said lemon juice itself in the eye is going to sting :wacko: :wacko: )

So basically the only legal options i have is to hand over my possession or run like hell and call 999

Edited by paul232

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There's an argument for both sides I guess. If my daughter was out for a night, would I feel a little better if she had a tin of mace in her bag? I probably would yes.

If it was legal would I carry it if I went out drinking for a night? Probably not no.

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So basically the only legal options i have is to hand over my possession or run like hell and call 999

No you can defend yourself using reasonable force.

As you don't have the training or the equipment I'd suggest run and call 999 however.

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So basically the only legal options i have is to hand over my possession or run like hell and call 999

If I was walking late at night and someone tried to rob me at knifepoint I would hand everything over as I'm not a very good runner. My life ain't worth it. Even if I had my PPW with me I wouldn't use it, it's just not worth it!

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If I was walking late at night and someone tried to rob me at knifepoint I would hand everything over as I'm not a very good runner. My life ain't worth it. Even if I had my PPW with me I wouldn't use it, it's just not worth it!

Yes true, but some times they intend on stabbing or killing you regardless of if you comply or not

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I'm a member of the public and I've had first hand experience of defending myself with pepper spray against a neighbour who attacked me on my front doorstep last year. I was charged with assault/ABH but found not guilty in Crown Court in November. No charges were brought against me with regards to the pepper spray as it was home-made and in an air-freshener trigger spray bottle so as not to contravene s5 of the Firearms Act. It's very easy to make "police-grade" spray from readily available ingredients, and I've seen for myself how effective it is.

Had I not had the spray to hand, it would have been a knife from the kitchen or one of the numerous golf clubs that are strategically placed around the house. The attacker would almost certainly have been more seriously injured than he was by the spray. I see absolutely no reason why off-the-shelf pepper spray aerosols should not be legalised, even if only for use in self defence in the home, when it is so easy to produce a completely legal DIY version.

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Kraxein, you lead a charmed life :nono:

"there has never been a moment when my climbing hasn't failed me when it comes to evading gangs, and i've had to do it a few times, fazakerley, walton park, walton lol, hell even city centre i've had to make a quick dash :clapping: i'm gonna have dell looking all over the place for a ninja now :ph34r: "

still, nice to see all your dynamic risk assessments worked :smiley_notworthy:

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CS is a section 5 firearm in this country. And it WILL stay like that. Police use it as a tactical option along with tasers as LESS LETHAL options. Baton use is becoming far less heard of, apart from in recent public order situations were obviously tasers and CS are a big no no. As long as CS is classed as a section 5 firearm it will remain illegal for anyone to have it. And finally I doubt you have, but if you have been subjected to CS you will know how bad it hurts. If had exposure in training and in live events. Luckily in the live event the CS didn't effect me untill backup arrived, once it effected me I couldnt see or make sense of my surroundings. Although i used my cs and it stopped the violent offender instantly, i was also effected and become useless within 30 seconds, just enough time for my colleagues to make and assist. However, if i didn't work in a big city and help wasn't always a matter of seconds away I could have easily found myself temporerily blind with a violent offender. CS has good points and bad. Its effective, very effective infact on the vast majorirty of people, however, it pollutes the air and friendly fire is regular.

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