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Breaking News: POLICE PENSIONS 4/9/12

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#26 OFFLINE   vanlose



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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:44 pm

Thankfully these changes won't affect me with 6.5 to go, but two of the most attractive aspects of the whole package of police service have been removed and this may well now weigh heavily when future candidates are considering their career options. Early retirement with a reasonable pension were ying which went with the yang of call-outs in the middle of the night and missing Christmas and kids birthdays.

To those thinking of changing their pension plans, our federation put something on our force intranet last week which said that tax and NI contributions would both increase if you withdrew from the current schemes and that taking that into account withdrawing may account for savings of about only 50% of current contributions. Don't know if thats just scaremongering to keep money going into the pot but might be worth checking out.

#27 OFFLINE   gripper



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Posted 09 September 2012 - 04:35 pm

As far as I am aware, your pension contributions are taken out of salary before tax.
So if you paid £300 a month, you would be taxed £120 straight away.
And your NI contribution would be more as well.
A colleague of mine stopped paying his pension, when he had completed 30 years.
He only gained about £160.
I would take financial advice before pulling out of the scheme.

#28 ONLINE   Dragonfly


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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:32 pm


For info, there is a message and video from Paul McKeever now live on the website on pensions and the ballot

#29 OFFLINE   Tom Sawyer

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:18 pm

McKeever doesn't say that he will pursue section 2.Which means that the fed have rolled over and are not even bothering to defend something specifically enshrined in law to protect our pensions.This is disgusting its now push come to shove time and the Fed have shown their true colours.Yet they still sit in a new building in Leatherhead thinking nothing has happened and people will just keep paying the subs regardless.They are all protected within the aged 45 or 10 years to go rules.I am glad i withdrew my subs years ago and I have had my share of complaints and never needed them.The service they gave to so called failing student officers being scapegoated by over zealous supervision eager to tick a 'dealing with a difficlut situation ' box on an application for was truly shocking.They had no clue or interest in section 13 proceedings for failing probationers.So the current apathy is par for the course.

Aren't people interested in the shafting other sites are doing their nuts joining together and making plans.This site seems dead around major life changing more the worse events.

#30 OFFLINE   sykes


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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:25 am

Tom Sawyer while everyone has their own views and opinions on this issue if are going to criticise at least get the facts right, first off this total lack of understanding of what the fed is doing what it can do and what the law is around pensions, the argument at present is our pension can not be changed due to Section 2, to alter this HMG need to change the law, who has the powers and interest to do this HMG, what the fed is asking is for officers to help by contacting their MPs putting pressure on the people who can block this move , the fed as said inhhte video are still making representation about this.

the federation does have many failings and needs a good kick up the backside but they are only a representative body people need to understand that. if every officer was in the fed and took a active interest in what is going on then they would have more chance of influencing HMG and ACPO but people in general and the police are no different it seems want someone else to do the work for them.

Yes there are other internet site where people are making big noises its very easy to be big brave and bold on a internet forum where you are anonymous can say what you want without having to prove or back up your arguments

leaving the fed or the pension a individual choice but each has more benefits than the latest headline arguments i would seriously advise anyone to take some independent advice before leaving either and not base decisions on parade room bravado.

#31 ONLINE   Dragonfly


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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:18 pm


Dear Colleagues


It is JCC policy to hold a ballot of all members on the issue of whether they wish the Police Federation of England and Wales to obtain Industrial Rights. As a result the JCC has undergone a tendering process for pollsters, sought the necessary legal advice and pulled together a raft of literature aimed at assisting the education process. The attached information sheet which has been prepared as part of that process.

At 6pm on Monday, 17 September, at an extraordinary meeting of the JCC, a ballot date will be agreed.

Police officers are officers of the Crown and as such are reliant on having their terms of service negotiated upon. In recent times rushed and ill-considered reforms of their conditions of service have left officers feeling that the uniqueness by which they exist is being eroded.
Importantly; the Police are not against reform or taking their share in times of economic hardship but the manner, speed and burden of responsibility has caused many to feel the police are taking more than their fair share.

If the Police Service is to have industrial rights and no longer retaining the unique role of officers of the Crown, this will require legislative changes in Europe.

After the ballot date has been set, it is incumbent upon all members to ensure the Police Federation has the correct contact details and that they have read all the Police Federation Of England and Wales supporting material aimed at ensuring voters are doing so from an intelligent and informed position.

In coming weeks to support this process of education, the JCC will be heading out to the Regions and JBB Representatives will be on hand to deal with enquiries as they arise.

Please be aware of the sensitivities around this piece of work and how it may be perceived by both the public and our members at this time. We urge you all to become fully aware of all the facts in this extremely important matter.

Paul Mckeever & Steve Williams

Attached Files

#32 OFFLINE   SimonT



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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:47 pm

Would anyone be interested in getting these rights? From speaking to a few people in the know there are some definite negatives of getting industrial rights, the principal one being that we would most likely no longer be crown servants and just employees. I for one have no interest in this happening.

#33 ONLINE   Dragonfly


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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:04 pm


What difference does the crown servant or employee make in reality?

If Winsor 2 comes in with compulsory severance available for Chiefs to wield we are no different really

I'm not advocating we have them at all but we need to at least look at them as many members of the fed are demanding it

#34 OFFLINE   SimonT



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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:20 pm

I can certainly appreciate how the situation is making people feel, i am less than happy with the way we are being pushed around. I do find some of the criticism of the fed a bit misguided, they after all, dont have any power and just have to do their best. The talk of cancelling the fed subs is i think a bit pointless. Their legal cover and insurance is better than anywhere you will get and although people might not like the way they are fighting for us they are fighting and are made up of our own staff.
I also see where the value of being a crown servant doesnt seem to be very obvious at the moment, what with us being hammered left and right. But if we lose that and become just employees then it would be hard to argue that anyone could be trained to do what we do, or only do little bits of what we do and the group4 gates get thrown wide open. Although our pension has been badly hit, its still just about the best one that anyone can get so people saying they will jump ship need to pause before they do it.
I just dont think that being able to strike is the giant killer that everyone would hope, and even if we all vote 100 percent for strike powers the government can just say 'dont care you cant have it' So all the bridge burning we do to the fed will have been for no reason

#35 OFFLINE   Tom Sawyer

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:27 pm

A direct lift from police federation minutes.they want to meet the Home secretary for a lunch to apologise for her treatment at conference to be funded from your subs.

“This raises concerns in how we move forward in building bridges as well as taking our members with us. It was suggested that an event was organised at the house of commons and privately have discussions. The organisation needs to be strong enough to admit the treatment was inappropriate.
Summary of action to be taken

1. Chair will telephone Home Secretary
2. Chairman and General Secretary will meet with Home Secreatary ASAP
3. Meal organised, Chair and Secretarys rank committees to meet with home secretary
4. MP reception will be organised after discussion with communications team and chair out of the meeting.”

#36 OFFLINE   Matt C

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:10 pm

I had the misfortune of falling quite ill in 2011, to the point where I may have had to retire on the grounds of ill-health. At that time, I had approximately 12 years pensionable service. I hit me like a sledgehammer to learn that I would only receive about £400 per month (which, after means-testing, meant I would only receive about £50 per month more than on benefits!!) Anyway, I was lucky enough to recover and stay in the job, but it woke me up enough to seriously look at the Police Pension Scheme. I no longer pay in. I've worked out that it is better to keep the £196 a month and overpay on my mortgage. It's reduced the payment term by years, and It is SOLID FIGURES, not just some vague projections with no assurances. Not saying it is right for everyone, but I would rather have the money working for me NOW, under MY control, than have my retirement-pot tied into a financial instrument where I have no control, no assurances, and where the rules can be changed in ANY way, at ANY times, without my consent.

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