National Police Force
Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:33 AM
Now, there are a couple of ex-plods on said site but nothing like the wealth of experience here so I thought I would ask your opinion.
I've already stated my position as PRO but I'm more than ready to listen to the ANTIs point of view.
Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:38 AM
On the whole i think it would work, it would work very well, if it was done well, if the it systems were properly created and joined up.
My concern and the reason i am currently against is that we have shown ourselves time and time again to be barely competent when it comes to this sort of thing,
- Nykad21 likes this
Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:55 AM
I saw the first use of computers within the police and was dismayed to see every force going its own way, doing its own thing.
That may have changed (?) but you're right - everyone wants their own empire and some will be totally reluctant to give up anything to anyone else.
Your worries about procurement could also be justified - just look at the MOD. But there must be economies of scale to be leveraged ?
Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:47 AM
Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:39 PM
There are ways we can save money, we can all get our body armour together and just change the badges, etc etc. cars canI be bought in bulk. The north west forces bought a load of hyundai cars together saving a small fortune, the cars are just awful but it saved money.
We could do it on a national scale and with better cars and were onto a winner.
I am all for working together more but a national force is not for me
Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:46 PM
Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:05 PM
I don't understand that comment. Yes, a different approach depending on whether the situation is rural, urban or metropolitan but surely the underlying principles are the same. The methods used in Brighton differ from those used in Wisborough Green but their are both policed by the same force.
"for all the talk of efficiency modernisation and change the police service shows time and time again it is opposed to change"
That's interesting and, judging from the previous comment, carries some weight. I would have thought operational and organisational differences would have been an argument brought up by some but it seems that sheer bloody-mindedness and opposition to change would be a major hurdle.
Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:48 AM
I would like to see some sensible changes or improvements but we seem almost incapable of doing such a basic thing. Each time we just end up with less moral and more forms to complete.
The steps to make one force are quite simple and easy. Joint procurement of all equiptment and a common set of computer programs and forms. Thats pretty much it. That way you can have all forces seperate but working together and then when that is done change the command structures etc and you have a national police force.
But who gets to decide which kit we get? Thats where it starts and all falls down at the same time. HMIC could just tell us what we are having and make us get it, but thats way to complicated in that its simple
Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:54 PM
Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:23 AM
Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:31 AM
There would be virtually no local input: the effort would go to the biggest urban areas where it would be easy to meet centrally dictated targets or it would go to marginal constituencies at the whim of the Home Secretary.
It would be even less efficient that British Leyland was, because, unlike Leyland, you could never sell it off.
Remember, there's no problem so bad that government can't make worse.
Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:23 AM
If you want an example of a 'National Police Force, you need look no farther than the Royal Canadian Mounted Police ' here in Canada. It has been in turmoil for years...and it would seem that bigger is not best! As has beren pointed out, we all do things diferently at not only Regional level, but at local force level with the Region too. I rememebr well the turmoil in the West of Scotland when such at the City of Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Ayrshire etc were amalgametd into Strathclyde. I was City of Glasgow prior to amalgamation and I don't care what anyone says, we were more efficient, cohesive and happier as a 'City' force than what we became on the implemantation of Strathclyde!
Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:52 PM
We are amalgamating eight forces into one in Scotland.
Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:47 AM
We are amalgamating eight forces into one in Scotland.
I wish you well...though you should be very afraid....
Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:20 PM
Nah, it'll be fine - honest.....
Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:54 PM
Border Force (and its immediate predecessor, UKBA) is a national law enforcement agency, which merged two different approaches to dealing with people (immigration) and goods (customs) crossing UK borders.
The first thing management did was to regionalise us, so we don't get the benefits of scale or easy access to assistance from colleagues in the next region over.
We half-heartedly tried to integrate work across the old regimes into one all-singing, all-dancing volunteer multifunctional officer, but we didn't get equivalent training or powers for both work streams and half the staff seem to have exemptions from nights, weekends, trains, and shift working. Most of customs is criminal, most of immigration is administrative.
After three years, we still run two seperate IT systems and have contrived an intelligence network which is supposed to feed both streams but makes sure officers have access to only one of the two IT systems.
Uniform, when it is available, has been bought from the lowest bidder and cannot keep up with the demand for white shirts with epaulette tabs, never mind speialist kit like body armour and life jackets. The purchase of one-off items is treated as being subject to EU tendering rules and results in costs about 40% greater than a single purchase from a specialist website.
We saved on new uniforms recently by issuing new velcro badges and plain ties, which are bright and clean and stand out when applied to the faded blue shirt issued three years ago and awaiting replacement.
Our senior managers come from both streams and enjoy a 2 day conversion course allowing them to fully understand the entirety of the work area they did not grow up in. Decision making is clearly enhanced by this process and produces well thought out and practical solutions to frontline issues.
Both the original merger and the Border Force divorce were conducted without any additional funding to cover the costs. We still have UKBA warrant cards, so I guess it's fortunate they never created an offence of impersonating a UKBA officer.
Resourcing is placed in the largest ports, hoping to cash in on the higher chance of detecting offences, leaving the smaller ports and the uncanalised coastline almot entirely unprotected. If Joan Collins complains about queues at Heathrow, we stop doing customs work in the rest of the country and fly down to swipe passports.
Moving to a national police force would not only recreate all of the pitfalls of previous government backed mergers, but would doubtless create some special ones all of your own. There might be some advantage to a national uniform and kit standard, but I can see no advantage to surrendering local control of policing in the counties to a national board which would become subject to direct Home Office interference.
Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:55 PM
The only changes I would make to that map would be to have all Yorkshire forces together and have West Midlands as a separate force in the same way as GMP and the MET given that they are much larger city forces.
Some forces (such as Hampshire and thames valley) have already merged their specialst operations teams firearms, traffic, etc. I can't see why those ideas can't be extended to a whole force. A few chief cons would have to go saving hundreds of thousands of pounds alone.
Of course I doubt that either a full merger or several regional mergers will happen anytime soon and quite possibly never, not in my lifetime just for the reasons already mentioned on this thread.
I certainly think that a national procurement system could and should be implemented as it would reduce the costs of uniform, equipment, vehicles etc. I think a national set of IT systems would be a good idea. It is certainly possible in this day and age and I think that it would be relatively simple to do over time if all forces agreed to it in advance and then procured the same system that had the ability to be linked together gradually. After that forces could change their own local systems over to the national systems in their own time and as existing contracts are completed.
Of course the main obstacle to any changes are the government, the SLT's and the brand new PCC's as none of these parties will do anything that makes the slightest bit of sense to the rest of us!
Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:54 AM
The OP for this topic will have the ideal opportunity to see this idea first hand when the 8 Scottish forces merge to form the Police Service Of Scotland (catchy no ?). Like some posters here there are concerns that like the Met would in England , Strathclyde as the biggest force in Scotland will have the biggest say over procurement, computer systems, best practice etc. I personally am all for anything that reduces the amount of red tape and paperwork we do but in all honesty it would appear just to be a money saving exercise. I await April 1st with a feeling of both interest and trepidation.
Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:35 PM
The OP for this topic will have the ideal opportunity to see this idea first hand when the 8 Scottish forces merge to form the Police Service Of Scotland (catchy no ?).
We will be known as Police Scotland....
Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:47 PM
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