Spook

As the protesting police officers gathered at Hyde Park Corner on a cold and grey winter's morning, the purr of a helicopter could be distinctly heard overhead. From the ground it wasn't clear whether it was a police or news helicopter. Two of the marchers looked up and one muttered something about 'Big Brother', without any irony. The gathered ranks of off-duty police could be spotted from some distance away. This was not only due to the sheer mass of numbers - around 20,000 according to the protesters themselves- but also due to the bright white caps which perched on 15,000 heads. They insist their figures are accurate, especially regarding the caps, of which they ran out. The protestors began to move slowly in a hugely orderly fashion with barely any uniformed officers in sight. Different breed Clearly, as one protester put it, if one cannot trust the police to behave themselves on a march "then there's no hope for any of us". It was a most unusual affair as there was a conspicuous absence of shouting, whistling, and only a handful of placards and not even the usually ubiquitous rude placard about George W Bush. These protesters were of a different breed, marching quietly and with dignity. However, although the atmosphere seemed to be subdued, in amongst the crowds was much anger, disappointment and strong resentment towards the government. Passions were certainly running high for Sergeant John Donoghue who works in the London's West End for the Metropolitan Police. He said he was "not a militant," and also apologised after he had vented his spleen in an eloquent and heartfelt manner. Sgt Donoghue was the first sergeant to arrive at Edgware Road tube station after it had been attacked on the 7 July bombings. "It's not about money, it's never been about money, it's about how the government have completely lost our trust. We are just asking for a fair pay settlement as laid down through arbitration. "If you are going to treat us like employees then give us the right to strike. You ask anyone here, "do you want the right to strike?" they'll say yes. "If you ask them "do you want to strike?" they'll say no." Suddenly, two police vans whiz past and cut a line through the long white snake made up of their off-duty colleagues. This arouses much interest in the crowds who turn, wave and cheer at those uniformed officers inside the dashing, screaming van. Strength of feeling The more suspicious-minded might wonder how necessary the sirens actually were, but it certainly lifted the protesters' spirits. Among the white caps was PC Lucy Nield of Surrey Police. She said: "I hope this shows the strength of feeling within the police force so both sides will see that we are taking it very seriously. "Hopefully, our protests will mean that in future things will be done in a honourable manner and that we will not have to disrupt London." Not everyone was on such a charitable mood, however, a small group of men with two large flags, sporting the words 'class war' waved them at the side of the road, clearly individuals not in favour of the officers' protests. One raised his voice to hurl accusations of the marchers being communists, also urging them to "go back to Moscow ". The mood grew more tense among the off-duty officers, one of them shouting back: "Have a bath mate", and another "I'm not hiding my face, am I pal", aimed at one individual whose scarf was keeping most of his face warm. Chief Inspector Malcolm Beveridge of the Metropolitan Police said it was a very strange feeling to be on a march. "This is the first time many of us have felt strongly enough to voice an opinion. For the last 30 years there has been complete negotiation and compliance by the police," he said. "It's a very, very strange feeling because I don't want to be here. I don't want, even unintentionally to be drawing my colleagues away from the business they need to do. But what else can we do?" PC Stan Hebborn a Surrey Police officer and member of Surrey Police Federation was keen to make a point about the police pension. 'Peace and patience' He said: "We get a lot of criticism over the police pension but the government subtracts 11 per cent of our salary. They're keen to bank the money but not so keen to give it back." PC Hebborn also claims that the life expectancy of the average police officer after retirement is seven years. As the sea of caps wound its way through the city, bemused groups of shivering smokers looked on and many began to pass comment among themselves. One woman on a mobile phone said something about "to protect and serve" which is a reference to police in America. Another passer by mentioned to his colleague about what would happed should there be an emergency, seemingly unaware the officers were off duty. Inspector Perry Oliver of the Met Inspectors said the whole ethos of the protests had been one of "peace and patience," with specific reference to the lobby of MPs which many of the officers were to take part in at the end of the march. "We want our officers to gather in groups and lobby their MPs so the people can show their distaste and disgust," he said. Whether this displeasure is taken seriously by those wielding the nation's purse strings, remains to be seen. Source: BBC News

Best of luck folks.

I am sorry, but I have always found that argument to be weak and ill thought out. One does not automatically lead into another. When officer went from the old wooden stick to the various batons, was there wide spread use by the criminal fraternity, NO. When Officers went to PAVE/CS, was there wide spread use by the criminal fraternity, NO. When office began to wear body armour, was there wide spread use by the criminal fraternity, NO. There may well have been increases. The same excuse was used by many before the change to batons and spray. Fact is gun crime in already on the increase and yet there is not more routine arming, how does this argument fit in with that fact?

You would need to seek the conset of the relevent force first as any volunteers may well be committing disciplinary offences otherwise. I am sure that if you contact your local force they may well be able to help you more.

If that’s the case then dont make them! There is no way a civilian would have access to ARV deployments, there will be generic comments on the force website, anything more would be restricted, you seem to have fallen into the fixation that fir arms incidents only happen at high profile sites, this is not the case as the sad loss of life last year showed. I am sure CC's would love the money to be able to police this pipe dream, but by your description banks could be classed as high risk, so do you want an ARV outside every bank. Whilst we strive to have a thriving debate and discussion, please can everyone actual think and read what they are going to post before hitting the reply button.

Apart from the decent sentencing that judges are not afraid of passing there is also a huge cultural difference, in the US the majority are brought up to respect authority, the deference paid the members of the Emergency Services and Armed forces really puts the UK to shame. I know of many officers in the US who cringe at what they see on Cops. Whilst I do not in anyway condone police brutality, the general population knows that if you don’t comply with their instructions then there may well be robust response. You also don’t tend to get the pathetic act of downgrading offences against police officers because they should be used to it.

Yes it is and has been for a number of years now.

I am completely opposed to the Government interference by setting targets and making funding dependant on meeting those targets. I have yet to hear from any advocate of Positive Discrimination for that is exactly what it is of how to get the recruits if sufficient don’t apply. We stopped using press gangs centuries ago so I can see no other way of getting more in. A perfect example of how this form of social engineering does NOT work is South Africa were they actively promote Positive Discrimination in that in many jobs applicants are judged by the colour of their skin in the following order 1: Black 2: Indian 3: Mixed Race 4: White Qualifications of experience takes second place to this quota. The Police service has made huge inroads in tackling discrimination yet this is hardly ever acknowledged. The standards for the police service have already been lowered substantially over the past decade, to the point that some officers actually use text talk in official documents. We need the standards back, that coupled with a realistic centrist work ethic will enable the minority groups to increase. We have to be very careful in not making the situation worse by forces being over zealous, such as the recent incident in Bedfordshire Police where following an ill thought out joke by a white officer has led to what he claims as being forced out for an act of stupidity in giving a secret Santa present to a Muslim officer, but the Muslim Officer and local Muslim Community leaders have said how the incident is nothing more than a poor joke, one officer who was not involved decided to scream Racism and the force took up the challenge, regardless of the fact that the Muslim officer said he did not want to make any formal complaint and saw it only as a poor in taste joke. Recruitment, Selection, Promotion or attachments should be base on ability/competency and qualification and nothing else.

I compeltley agree, but by that standard, over half the Cabinet would be sacked.

Cheque sent, a very worthy cause.

Firstly I would address the issue with the owners, if they get on well with you then there shouldnt be a problem.

Just because a PC asks you to do it, it does not automatically mean you can, before they extended Specials Powers, I know of PC's and Sgts who asked Specials to escort of pick up a prisoner outside of their jurisdiction, purely because they were not aware of the limits.

A sad start to the New Year. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and those who attended the scene.

If thats the rules then thats the rules. Based on what you have said then there could be a conflict of interest, hence the rejection. Not sure what else can be said.

He wont be replying as he has been banned again.